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[insan]

Ahmet came to my house and during conversation told me that the Turkish police observed the collection of between 800-1,000 Greek Cypriot bodies from the region of Lapithos and Vasilia, who were then buried in a place known as "Agni""

It seems that these were the GCs and/or Greek combatants killed in those areas during the combat.

I noticed a fire in the place known as "Agni", just east of the orchards of Savvas Frantzieskou. Mehmet told me it was the Turkish army that had started the fire, in order to burn the bodies of Greek Cypriots uncovered by the rain. And, indeed, two-three days previously, it had rained heavily…'

If the allegations r true... Sad... They could bury them into a mass grave instead burning...

[YFred]

In a report (see here http://www.kathimerini.com.cy/index.php?pageaction=kat&modid=1&artid=5374 , in Greek) in the Cyprus edition of Kathimerini, Andreas Paraschos writes of the existence of a mass grave containing the remains of between 800-1,000 Greek Cypriots located near the occupied village of Lapithos, in the Kyrenia district. The alleged site of the mass grave has been designated by the Turkish army as a military zone. It is fenced off with barbed wire and signs have been erected warning about mines, although the Turkish Cypriot daily Afrika, yesterday reported that 'everyone can walk around in that area as he wishes. No mines have been found until now.'

Paraschos refers to the testimony of Savvas Mastrappas, enclaved in Lapithos until 28 October 1975 and who, after coming to the free areas, gave details to the Cypriot police of the mass grave; and to more recent witness accounts from Turkish Cypriots, who confirmed the existence of the mass grave, declaring its existence an 'open secret' among Turkish Cypriots in the region, some of whom, indeed, would periodically dig up the site and remove skeletons for medical studies.

The Mastrappas account

From March 1977, Savvas Mastrappas gave a series of depositions to the Cyprus police in which he described what he knew of the places of burial of Greek Cypriots killed by Turkish invasion forces. In one of these depositions, Mastrappas says: 'In July 1974, when the invasion occurred, I remained with my wife in our village [Lapithos]. I came to the free areas in October 1975. Apart from us, in Lapithos there must have been 40-50 other Greek Cypriot enclaved. Because I knew a little Turkish and other languages, the Turks put me in charge of the enclaved and I moved around somewhat more freely than the others. Four or five days after the fall of Lapithos, a Turkish Cypriot I knew called Ahmet from the [Turkish Cypriot village of] Photta came to our village, along with a police officer called Nizet. Ahmet came to my house and during conversation told me that the Turkish police observed the collection of between 800-1,000 Greek Cypriot bodies from the region of Lapithos and Vasilia, who were then buried in a place known as "Agni", close to the little harbour, where the villagers from Lapithos kept their fishing boats…'

In another part of his deposition, Mastrappas says: 'One day, it must have been around October-November 1974, when I went with a Turkish policeman named Mehmet – I think he was from the village of Kazaphani – and with a Briton from the British embassy, to the place known as "Koufi Petra", so we could place a British flag on a house there owned by a Briton, I noticed a fire in the place known as "Agni", just east of the orchards of Savvas Frantzieskou. Mehmet told me it was the Turkish army that had started the fire, in order to burn the bodies of Greek Cypriots uncovered by the rain. And, indeed, two-three days previously, it had rained heavily…'

Turkish Cypriot accounts
Paraschos then goes on to report that on a recent visit to Lapithos, he spoke to Turkish Cypriots in the area, and one said to Paraschos: 'I'll take you to a place near the sea where missing persons are buried.' I asked him: 'How do you know there are missing buried there?' 'It's an open secret here in Kyrenia and many Turkish Cypriots know that some people dug up skulls for medical purposes.'

According to this Turkish Cypriot, Paraschos writes, a teacher-friend of his told him that he dug up a skull for his daughter, who was training in medicine. Indeed, when this teacher-friend wanted to get hold of a skull for his daughter and started asking around where he could get one, he was told at the local cafe that many others had similar 'needs' and that the only way was to enter the fenced-off area and dig up Greek Cypriot dead. 'Don't be scared,' he was told, 'you won't be the first. Others have done the same.' And this is what he did. Despite his fear that since the area was fenced-off as a military zone, he went there, waited for a while, to see if there was any soldiers patrolling the area and when he saw there was not, he entered, dug, found what he was looking for, took it and left…

Posted by John Akritas at Wednesday, September 09, 2009

http://hellenicantidote.blogspot.com/2009/09/mass-grave-with-800-1000-greeks.html

This is an outrageous report. Cys bring dug up for medical research and bodies burned to hide the evidence of attrocities by the Turkish Army.

Pres X - postpone the talks again, until this site is dug up. It ain't fair on the relatives.

I smell rejectionists trying to stop the talks. Is kathimerini a rejectionist paper by any chance?

[Nikitas]

"It seems that these were the GCs and/or Greek combatants killed in those areas during the combat."

So why hide the bodies? Why bury them in a mass grave miles away from the battlefield and keep it secret for 35 years? Vassilia is in the sough side of Pentadaktylos, Lapithos in the north side, it must have taken some major transport effort to move all those bodies over the mountain for burial.

No, the combat casualty thing is not a reasonable explanation, it becomes less so when you consider the number of over- and under- aged people killed and buried there. Seventey and eight year olds were not combatantas, at least I think they were not. You never know with the superpowers of these GCs.

[YFred]

"It seems that these were the GCs and/or Greek combatants killed in those areas during the combat."

So why hide the bodies? Why bury them in a mass grave miles away from the battlefield and keep it secret for 35 years? Vassilia is in the sough side of Pentadaktylos, Lapithos in the north side, it must have taken some major transport effort to move all those bodies over the mountain for burial.

No, the combat casualty thing is not a reasonable explanation, it becomes less so when you consider the number of over- and under- aged people killed and buried there. Seventey and eight year olds were not combatantas, at least I think they were not. You never know with the superpowers of these GCs.

Judging by the pictures posted by Rafaella the other day, I am inclined to agree with your reasoning and your deductions.

[insan]

"It seems that these were the GCs and/or Greek combatants killed in those areas during the combat."

So why hide the bodies? Why bury them in a mass grave miles away from the battlefield and keep it secret for 35 years? Vassilia is in the sough side of Pentadaktylos, Lapithos in the north side, it must have taken some major transport effort to move all those bodies over the mountain for burial.

No, the combat casualty thing is not a reasonable explanation, it becomes less so when you consider the number of over- and under- aged people killed and buried there. Seventey and eight year olds were not combatantas, at least I think they were not. You never know with the superpowers of these GCs.

Hmm... Why they were first burried in a mass grave and then when the corpses undercovered by rain they burned them. Had their intention been hide their guilt forever, they would have burnt the corpses from the first day collected.

There is something going behind the scenes. Since it was revealed that some groups of TC fighters and TC paramilitaries too, involved with mass killings of a number of GC civilians/pows, allegations regarding mass killings, mass graves increased and there's a weird situation some invisible/anonymous, persons/groups trying to put the blame on this and that... Some persons/political groups trying to create some impressions in favour of their self interests but it is not yet so clear who try to create what impressions for what purpose.

Sooner or later we will partly or completely understand what goes behind the scenes regarding the weirdness of these allegations...

[Nikitas]

Insan,

Use your knowledge of Cyprus, and how it was in 1974, if you are old enough to have that knowledge.

I can visualise what went on, with bands of irregulars wanting to be in on the action, but not wanting to risk life and limb, so they expended their bravery on civilians and unarmed captives. Then there were plain thieves, like the ones in Palekythro that killed two families for a few cows and a milking machine. And then there was the plan to terrorise GCs to encourage them to empty the north, part of the Turkish army psywar operations.

It all makes a web of terror and yields a pile of bodies. And when they realised that news teams from BBC and ITV and Reuters were around they had to hide the bodies. It is no mystery.

The scandal is that both sides are providing a shield of silence for the killers. We are waiting till they are dead and beyond punishment to reveal their names. It is indicative of Cypriot society on both sides. At least in that area we are identical.

[insan]

Insan,

Use your knowledge of Cyprus, and how it was in 1974, if you are old enough to have that knowledge.

I can visualise what went on, with bands of irregulars wanting to be in on the action, but not wanting to risk life and limb, so they expended their bravery on civilians and unarmed captives. Then there were plain thieves, like the ones in Palekythro that killed two families for a few cows and a milking machine. And then there was the plan to terrorise GCs to encourage them to empty the north, part of the Turkish army psywar operations.

It all makes a web of terror and yields a pile of bodies. And when they realised that news teams from BBC and ITV and Reuters were around they had to hide the bodies. It is no mystery.

The scandal is that both sides are providing a shield of silence for the killers. We are waiting till they are dead and beyond punishment to reveal their names. It is indicative of Cypriot society on both sides. At least in that area we are identical.

Hmm... sorry but ur visualization sounds too superficial to me. How abt the hostile environment, war psychology, taking revenge of old and recent wounds, anger, heat of July and August etc... U didn't put them into consideration at all...

[Nikitas]

"taking revenge of old and recent wounds, anger,"

Insan, that kind of thinking can be used to interpret December 1963 as revenge for the summer of 1958.

The way forward is to stop having these secret thoughts of payback. That is what good settlements do, they minimize the number of people who feel unsatisfied, and even those are compensated so as to feel they came out OK.

What happened in the summer of 74 was a succession of each community externalising the worst in Cypriots. First the one then the other. I do not think the heat of July had much to do with it. Neither do I think there was much local thought paid to what was happening. If there was thought there would not be so much chaos. Maybe outsiders were doing the thinking, but definitely not the locals. How much thinking did it take for Maratha, or Afania, or Palekythro?. In some cases teenagers became mass executioners. No, thinking was not a major part. It was the Cypriot with a feeling of invincibility. Bad combo.

[bill cobbett]

Insan,

Use your knowledge of Cyprus, and how it was in 1974, if you are old enough to have that knowledge.

I can visualise what went on, with bands of irregulars wanting to be in on the action, but not wanting to risk life and limb, so they expended their bravery on civilians and unarmed captives. Then there were plain thieves, like the ones in Palekythro that killed two families for a few cows and a milking machine. And then there was the plan to terrorise GCs to encourage them to empty the north, part of the Turkish army psywar operations.

It all makes a web of terror and yields a pile of bodies. And when they realised that news teams from BBC and ITV and Reuters were around they had to hide the bodies. It is no mystery.

The scandal is that both sides are providing a shield of silence for the killers. We are waiting till they are dead and beyond punishment to reveal their names. It is indicative of Cypriot society on both sides. At least in that area we are identical.

Hmm... sorry but ur visualization sounds too superficial to me. How abt the hostile environment, war psychology, taking revenge of old and recent wounds, anger, heat of July and August etc... U didn't put them into consideration at all...

My dear Insan, your reply to N is very, very weak. It seems to
me that N's "visualisation" as you call it is very believable.

Now, why would anyone want to remove skulls from what more and more people are calling a mass grave?

[insan]

Insan,

Use your knowledge of Cyprus, and how it was in 1974, if you are old enough to have that knowledge.

I can visualise what went on, with bands of irregulars wanting to be in on the action, but not wanting to risk life and limb, so they expended their bravery on civilians and unarmed captives. Then there were plain thieves, like the ones in Palekythro that killed two families for a few cows and a milking machine. And then there was the plan to terrorise GCs to encourage them to empty the north, part of the Turkish army psywar operations.

It all makes a web of terror and yields a pile of bodies. And when they realised that news teams from BBC and ITV and Reuters were around they had to hide the bodies. It is no mystery.

The scandal is that both sides are providing a shield of silence for the killers. We are waiting till they are dead and beyond punishment to reveal their names. It is indicative of Cypriot society on both sides. At least in that area we are identical.

Hmm... sorry but ur visualization sounds too superficial to me. How abt the hostile environment, war psychology, taking revenge of old and recent wounds, anger, heat of July and August etc... U didn't put them into consideration at all...

My dear Insan, your reply to N is very, very weak. It seems to
me that N's "visualisation" as you call it is very believable.

Now, why would anyone want to remove skulls from what more and more people are calling a mass grave?

According to the alleged testimonies there's a mass grave there... What's important for relatives of missings is whose remains were burried there.

I wonder if they were all corpses of GCs/Greeks who were killed during the combat or some killed during the combat and some killed as captives/pows.

It is obvious that during July/August those who were killed during the combat should have been burried into mass graves because they would rot outside and smell bad...

On the other hand, the witness stated that 3 day lasted rain uncovered the corpses and TA burned the corpses. If they burned the corpses then there's no mass grave there.

Furthermore, had TA wanted to hide their guilt as it was claimed, would have burnt all the corpses of Greek/GC deads no matter whether they were killed during the combat or massacred as pows/captives...? Yes?

When I put into consideration the hostile environment, revenge feelings, retaliatory anger etc during July/August 1974, it is highly probable that such mass killings had occured and infact it was revealed that such mass killings were committed.

As I previously stated, there weird things going on behind the scenes. Some political groups r trying to create impression for their self-interests over these allegations.