Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Source:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/273491/m ... rcekler+11

Fred, the following brochure was apparently distributed by the Turkish Cypriot leadership in 1964 to residents of the city’s Turkish quarter:

A: Bu emre itaatsizlik edecek olanlar ve Rumlarla ticari ilişkiye geçenler 25 Kıbrıs Lirası cezaya veya hapislik cezasına çarptırılacaklardır.

B. Bir Kıbrıs Lirası ceza şu suçlara verilecektir.

1- Rumlarla konuşup tartışanlar ve beraberinde Kıbrıslı Rum veya yabancıyla görülenler.

2- Rumlarla herhangi resmi bir iş münasebetiyle ilişkiye geçecek olanlar.

3- Kıbrıs Rum Bölgelerine geçecek olanlar.

4-Kıbrıs Rum Hastahanesi’ne muayene veya ilaç için gidecek olanlar.

C. Kıbrıslı Rumlarla ilişkiye geçenler veya Türk bölgelerinden elde edilecek malları Rum Bölgelerinden alanlara, ürettiğimiz malları Rum Bölgelerinden alanlara 20 K. Lirası ceza empoze edilecektir.

D. Aşağıdaki nedenlerle Rum Bölgesi’ne geçenlere 25 Kıbrıs Lirası ciddi bir ceza veya aylık hapis ya da kırbaçlama cezası verilecektir.

1- Gezmek için geçenler.

2-Kıbrıslı Rumlarla dostluk ilişkisi için geçenler.

3-Eğlence için

4-Kıbrıslı Rumlara bilgi aktarmak için geçenler.

Not. Yalnız Rum Bölgesinden geçmek mecburiyetinde kalanlar yukarıdaki kısıtlamalardan muaftırlar.

TRANSLATION

A: A fine of 25 Cyprus pounds or a term of imprisonment will be imposed on those who disobey this order and enter commercial relations with Greek Cypriots.

B: A fine of one Cyprus pound will be imposed for the following offences:

1- Those who speak to or enter discussions with Greek Cypriots or are seen together with Greek Cypriots or foreigners.

2- Those who enter any form of official business relations with Greek Cypriots.

3- Those who cross into Greek Cypriot areas.

4- Those who go to the Greek Cypriot Hospital for treatment or medicine.

C. A fine of 20 Cyprus pounds will imposed on those who enter relations with Greek Cypriots, purchase goods that are obtainable in Turkish areas or who purchase goods which we produce from Greek Cypriot areas.

D. An aggravated penalty of 25 Cyprus pounds or one month’s imprisonment or the penalty of whipping will be imposed on those who go to the Greek Cypriot area for the following reasons.

1- Those who cross over to make a trip.

2- Those who cross over for relationships of friendship with Greek Cypriots.

3- For entertainment.

4- Those who cross over to pass on information to Greek Cypriots.

NB – Only those who must out of necessity cross to the Greek Cypriot area are exempt from the above restrictions.

If what you say about Louroujina is true, then it was a liberal paradise compared to Limassol.

They did some of that. Of course there was not a lot of interaction before 1968. TCs were not allowed to sell land to GCs. We were forbidden from talking Greek. Although we couldn't sell land, we certainly ignored the Turkification. They couldn't stop us talking to GCs or greek in the village if they tried. Quite a few people got fined for it. Some could not talk Turkish at all. My grandmother was one of those who could not speak Turkish. We arranged a football match with Limya, and got detention for it form the school when they found out. My father used the services of GCs to drill for water in 1970. The cities were one thing but as you say the villages were another matter.

BTW Oracle get stuffed, you old cow. You can ignore reality all you like, you will be the looser.

[denizaksulu]

The above reminds me of a trip I made to Cyprus in 1968. We had gone to the old city of Famagusta to look up some old acquaintances. It was just before christmas, so it was wet cold. Me and another Kophiniote cousin of mine were wearing long coats. We arrived at the door of the house, I knocked on the door and my friends wife (who was a hairdresser by trade) opened the door. She did not recognise me nor was I expected. Her color went pale, she nearly collapsed to the ground. I asked immediately, "are you okay?". She was terrified and speecless. She asked, "who are you?" I said it was me (my name). She then burst out laughing. I thought she had gone bonkers. She then explained, that she had just been to Marash/Varosha to buy hairdressing supplies for the partying customers. This was illegal, but she had a living to take care of. She then explained that she thought we were from the Teskilat (TMT) and had followed her and was expecting a beating. Apparently it was a common occurence. Later we enjoyed a feast of Kelle and a lovely pilav and laughed the evening away.

[YFred]

Stop talking rot YFred ... you are a well known habitual liar on this forum and the more you say the more we realise you are just after protecting yourself and your TMT colleagues ...

You are the last person to contradict Tim ....

Unlike you, Tim has an open mind and will listen to people's experiences like a normal human being unlike you who keep accusing me of being a liar. I guess you don't even know what it means.

[cymart]

The best way to deal with this is for the commitee on missing persons to be given immediate and discrete access to investigate the site,not by stirring up accusations in the media.As I have said before,there are a couple of private t.v. channels on the G.C. side and two daily newspapers,including the most widely read one, whose aim is to sabotage efforts to find a solution the current negotiations by using any means of negative reporting possible to influence public opinion and this insensitive use of the missing persons issue is just another sick example of their tactics and shows disrespect for the victims familes!Of course the site should be carefully surveyed and the Turkish Military must co-operate but this could be best achieved by using behind the scenes diplomacy and discretion....And don't think only the G.C's are guilty of using such media tactics-take the daily T.C. newspaper Volkan for example and the kind of articles it prints,not to mention Bayrak t.v. and radio!
Christophias and Talat already have their work cut out in the coming months to persuade people to accept the compromise they will hopefully reach and reigning-in these negative media outlets is a must if they are going to succeed..

[Tim Drayton]

I have found the following paragraph at an extreme nationalist Turkish website from a biography of a certain Bekir Demirci, apparently one of the leading lights of the TMT in Louroujina (referred to here by its correct revised Turkish name of ‘Akıncılar’):

www.kibris1974.com/soluksuz-maceranin-g ... 70140.html -

1963 yılında olaylar iyice kızışır Ne olacağı belli değildir. Akıncılar köyünde bir genelge yayınlanarak, köylünün belirlenen sınırları ihlal etmemesi emir verilir. Rum’a yaklaşılmayacak, kasaplar salhanede et kesecek, herkes sokağını temiz tutacak, hastane personeli doktorun yanında yer alacak gibi...

In 1963 events really heated up. It was uncertain what would happen. A circular was distributed in Akıncılar village and the order was given for the villagers not to infringe on the borders which were laid down. Likewise Greek Cypriots would not be approached, butchers would do their slaughtering at the slaughterhouse, everybody would keep the streets clean, hospital staff would join the doctor …

If the above is true, the TMT did impose restrictions on leaving Akıncılar - or should we call it Louroujina?

You seem to be saying that such regulations were regularly flouted, so that in practice there would be nothing to stop anyone getting up and leaving.

[YFred]

I have found the following paragraph at an extreme nationalist Turkish website from a biography of a certain Bekir Demirci, apparently one of the leading lights of the TMT in Louroujina (referred to here by its correct revised Turkish name of ‘Akıncılar’):

www.kibris1974.com/soluksuz-maceranin-g ... 70140.html -

1963 yılında olaylar iyice kızışır Ne olacağı belli değildir. Akıncılar köyünde bir genelge yayınlanarak, köylünün belirlenen sınırları ihlal etmemesi emir verilir. Rum’a yaklaşılmayacak, kasaplar salhanede et kesecek, herkes sokağını temiz tutacak, hastane personeli doktorun yanında yer alacak gibi...

In 1963 events really heated up. It was uncertain what would happen. A circular was distributed in Akıncılar village and the order was given for the villagers not to infringe on the borders which were laid down. Likewise Greek Cypriots would not be approached, butchers would do their slaughtering at the slaughterhouse, everybody would keep the streets clean, hospital staff would join the doctor …

If the above is true, the TMT did impose restrictions on leaving Akıncılar - or should we call it Louroujina?

You seem to be saying that such regulations were regularly flouted, so that in practice there would be nothing to stop anyone getting up and leaving.

He was not a leading light of TMT, he was the actual leader. They tried but totally got ignored. As I said, 99% of the land was outside of the defensive positions and they had no control outside. If they were succesful I wouldn't be able to speak any greek as they were at the hight of their power when I was 5.

Mr Kutsoveli as we used to refer to him (he was son of veli who had a limp) also threatened to kill a TC for talking like Kavazoglu, he did not stop, he was not killed and this man's children also took up the cause of their father.
The real Lurucadis always refer to Lurucina as their village. Akincilar is for the fascists. We have a website called Lurucina yasiyor, although the website has not been working for a while.

[denizaksulu]

The best way to deal with this is for the commitee on missing persons to be given immediate and discrete access to investigate the site,not by stirring up accusations in the media.As I have said before,there are a couple of private t.v. channels on the G.C. side and two daily newspapers,including the most widely read one, whose aim is to sabotage efforts to find a solution the current negotiations by using any means of negative reporting possible to influence public opinion and this insensitive use of the missing persons issue is just another sick example of their tactics and shows disrespect for the victims familes!Of course the site should be carefully surveyed and the Turkish Military must co-operate but this could be best achieved by using behind the scenes diplomacy and discretion....And don't think only the G.C's are guilty of using such media tactics-take the daily T.C. newspaper Volkan for example and the kind of articles it prints,not to mention Bayrak t.v. and radio!
Christophias and Talat already have their work cut out in the coming months to persuade people to accept the compromise they will hopefully reach and reigning-in these negative media outlets is a must if they are going to succeed..

Only two weeks ago I read an article related to the 'Missing' by RR Denktash. It may have been 'Toplum Postasi'.

In this article he said that he had reservations about allowing anyone to investigate these (the missing GC's) until the Coupists of 1974 and Greece had come clean about the GC's killed during the coup. He maintained that there were many who knew where the GC victims of the coup were buried in mass graves. He did foresee that there would be problems with identifying those that were killed during the coup and those that were killed later. How prophetic. He added that the GCs would not hesitate to blame the Turkish Army for all dead.

[Nikitas]

Denktash is a Cypriot and he knows how small Cyprus is. Those of us who had coup victims know when and how relatives were arrested and killed. It is impossible to hide coup victims for the simple reason it all happened in three days, from Monday the 15th of July up to and including the morning of Thursday. Most of the victims were police officers of the auxiliary unit.

The bodies were not dumped into any mass graves, they were taken to hospitals and left there for the relatives to claim.

Most fighting during the coup was around police stations and government installations in Nicosia, LImassol and Paphos. Some fighting took place in the Famagusta police station.

Why transport the dead from these clashes to Lapithos to bury there? Does Denktash have a theory for this?

The priest, Papa Tsestos, who happens to be the priest who buried my father, told me in 1979 that there were victims of the coup that he buried but not in mass graves. He told me that the services were normal except that the words "he died" are written for coup perpetrators whereas for victims the words "he fell" are used.

My father was a public prosecutor in Cyprus till his death in 1979. He told me of the numbers of casualties and the decision not to prosecute anyone. The numbers were nowhere near those alleged in this forum and elsewhere. It is also interesting that although my father was a known anti junta man, and a member of EDEK, he was not arrested during the three worst days of the junta. He was put on leave. None of his colleagues were arrested or harmed even though all of them were Makarios appointees.

The Junta did not carry out executions in Greece and it did not have to do so in Cyprus. Their methods did not rely on killing people. They had other means to terrorise the population.

So please leave this nonsense alone.

[EPSILON]

Denktash is a Cypriot and he knows how small Cyprus is. Those of us who had coup victims know when and how relatives were arrested and killed. It is impossible to hide coup victims for the simple reason it all happened in three days, from Monday the 15th of July up to and including the morning of Thursday. Most of the victims were police officers of the auxiliary unit.

The bodies were not dumped into any mass graves, they were taken to hospitals and left there for the relatives to claim.

Most fighting during the coup was around police stations and government installations in Nicosia, LImassol and Paphos. Some fighting took place in the Famagusta police station.

Why transport the dead from these clashes to Lapithos to bury there? Does Denktash have a theory for this?

The priest, Papa Tsestos, who happens to be the priest who buried my father, told me in 1979 that there were victims of the coup that he buried but not in mass graves. He told me that the services were normal except that the words "he died" are written for coup perpetrators whereas for victims the words "he fell" are used.

My father was a public prosecutor in Cyprus till his death in 1979. He told me of the numbers of casualties and the decision not to prosecute anyone. The numbers were nowhere near those alleged in this forum and elsewhere. It is also interesting that although my father was a known anti junta man, and a member of EDEK, he was not arrested during the three worst days of the junta. He was put on leave. None of his colleagues were arrested or harmed even though all of them were Makarios appointees.

The Junta did not carry out executions in Greece and it did not have to do so in Cyprus. Their methods did not rely on killing people. They had other means to terrorise the population.

So please leave this nonsense alone.

Thanks Nikita, your post is helping T/cs and settlers friends to understand the realities and do not make opinion basis their officials' propaganta.
Things were as you stated above and all others are as you said nonsense.

[Nikitas]

Epsilon,

I am puzzled by the almost manic drive to justify the actions of the Turkish army and the TMT irregulars who were given a free hand by the same army.

The allegation that bodies of GCs were driven all the way from the south coast to the north, to bury in Lapithos days before the invasion is really monstrous. Just think, it means that the coupists knew DAYS IN ADVANCE of the invasion point and had it all planned to blame the invading army for their alleged killings.