Cyprus-Forum.com

[Numbers]

Questions if Christofias and Talat are really serious about a solution.

From Financial Mirror
http://www.financialmirror.com/News/Cyp ... News/17146

September 03, 2009 - www.financialmirror.com
Advertisement

The fact that the September 3 meeting between Christofias and Talat was cancelled is a bad sign for the Cyprus peace talks.
Christofias and Talat were due to meet on Thursday for the official opening of the second round of the negotiations that began exactly a year ago on September 3, 2008, after three months of preparatory talks in April to July 2008.
They have a high hill to climb and two looming deadlines: the EU summit in December, when the Council will have to find some way of punishing Turkey for refusing to give access to Greek Cypriot ships and aeroplanes, and the Turkish Cypriot presidential elections in April 2010, when Talat faces almost certain defeat to a member of the hardline National Unity Party (UBP).
Seventeen months into the process, the sides have produced around 30 joint papers. But these just cover just three of the six subjects (EU, governance and economy).
They have not yet tackled in any detail the really difficult subjects of interest to Financial Mirror readers, such as who gets their property back, who is allowed to invest in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state, and how long it will take for Turkish products and services to meet EU standards, not to mention the key political issues.
Most of these issues require technical input and could take weeks to negotiate the finer details.
Yet insiders report that the leaders have no sense of urgency. While their advisers George Iacovou and Ozdil Nami beaver away on the more detailed issues, Christofias and Talat, who are supposed to focus on the bigger problems, behave as if they have all the time in the world.
Most of the leader meetings are said to be spent trading their different versions of history, rather than tackling details. Moreover, according to one source close to Talat, the leaders do not even tackle the big issues in their tete-a-tete meetings held in private.
All of this raises the question of whether the two leaders are serious about a solution or whether they are simply engaged in some kind of shadow game to keep the international community appeased. Thursday’s cancellation only serves to underline these suspicions.
Opponents of Christofias say that Talat trusts him too much, that Christofias is planning to push Talat into a corner and blame a collapse of the talks on Turkey.
Anastassiades hinted as much when he suggested that Christofias was more interested in a second term than solving the Cyprus problem.
We shall see in the next few weeks who is right.

By Tom Lawrence

[cymart]

Another excellent idea would be for Christophias and Greece to take-up the Turkish Foreign Ministers suggestion and hold a four part meeting here to thrash-out a common frame work for a solution between them,with Britain being involved on the security and guarantees issue,along with the EU. and U.N.
This way,Christophias can talk direct to Turkey on the issues which Talat keeps saying are beyond his authority etc and everyone can lay their cards on the table,the only problem being with the timing as Greece has an election in a few weeks(hopefully Papandreou will win with a clear majority).If Turkey are just bluffing about the whole thing then they will get egg on their face if the Greek Cypriots and Greece agree to the meeting-if not,then it will be their chance to prove they mean what they say?
The small details can then be worked out by Christophias,Talat and their advisors,rather than wasting interminable rounds of U.N. sponsored talks which have got nowhere for decades...
Why was this not done years ago as it has been suggested before and rejected by the Greek-Cypriots on legal techicalities who keep insisiting that the U.N. way is the only one???

[Nikitas]

At t his stage what advantage can be gained by either side showing the other to be at fault over any failure? This point is popular with the GC press, but in a wider international context it has very little meaning.

December is not a deadline for the talks. Regardless of the progress in Cyprus, TUrkey faces a whole bunch of unrelated issues which are much bigger hurdles in its EU progress. Greece has a problem with Turkish behavior in the Aegean, with daily violations of air and sea space, the unwillingness of TUrkey to enforce its agreement with the EU over illegal immigrants. How would progress in Cyprus solve these issues which are sure to come up in December?

The Greek elections will be over on October 5. Whichever side wins it will not change the lukewarm, arms length policy that Greece has adopted over Cyprus.

Calling a four party conference will simply revert to the days when the future of CYprus was handled by foreigners. It is the worst possible way out of the impasse as any solution which will result will be subject to the same criticisms as the 1960 agreements. This approach is valid for those who do not take Cypriot sovereignty seriously and that attitude opens the door to partition and double union. If that is the road we are going on it would make sense to make that public so we all know what we are heading for.

[DT.]

Another excellent idea would be for Christophias and Greece to take-up the Turkish Foreign Ministers suggestion and hold a four part meeting here to thrash-out a common frame work for a solution between them,with Britain being involved on the security and guarantees issue,along with the EU. and U.N.
This way,Christophias can talk direct to Turkey on the issues which Talat keeps saying are beyond his authority etc and everyone can lay their cards on the table,the only problem being with the timing as Greece has an election in a few weeks(hopefully Papandreou will win with a clear majority).If Turkey are just bluffing about the whole thing then they will get egg on their face if the Greek Cypriots and Greece agree to the meeting-if not,then it will be their chance to prove they mean what they say?
The small details can then be worked out by Christophias,Talat and their advisors,rather than wasting interminable rounds of U.N. sponsored talks which have got nowhere for decades...
Why was this not done years ago as it has been suggested before and rejected by the Greek-Cypriots on legal techicalities who keep insisiting that the U.N. way is the only one???

An international conference including the tc side would mean you are equating the tc community with 3 other sovereign states.

[YFred]

Another excellent idea would be for Christophias and Greece to take-up the Turkish Foreign Ministers suggestion and hold a four part meeting here to thrash-out a common frame work for a solution between them,with Britain being involved on the security and guarantees issue,along with the EU. and U.N.
This way,Christophias can talk direct to Turkey on the issues which Talat keeps saying are beyond his authority etc and everyone can lay their cards on the table,the only problem being with the timing as Greece has an election in a few weeks(hopefully Papandreou will win with a clear majority).If Turkey are just bluffing about the whole thing then they will get egg on their face if the Greek Cypriots and Greece agree to the meeting-if not,then it will be their chance to prove they mean what they say?
The small details can then be worked out by Christophias,Talat and their advisors,rather than wasting interminable rounds of U.N. sponsored talks which have got nowhere for decades...
Why was this not done years ago as it has been suggested before and rejected by the Greek-Cypriots on legal techicalities who keep insisiting that the U.N. way is the only one???

An international conference including the tc side would mean you are equating the tc community with 3 other sovereign states.

Goodness gracious me, what ever next? 49 years of RoC policy crumbling before your very eyes.
God help us all if such a thing should happen, the world will come to an end.

[cymart]

It does not mean that Talat will be recognised as a head of state,just that the four concerned parties will meet informally to try to reach a mutual understanding on this long outstanding isssue.The reality is that since 1974,the Greek-Cypriots have not been responsible for Turkish Cypriot affairs anyway but how and why is not the point here at this juncture.....holding the meeting without including one of the main parties in Cyprus would be unjust and negate the whole idea before it even started!

[bill cobbett]

Another excellent idea would be for Christophias and Greece to take-up the Turkish Foreign Ministers suggestion and hold a four part meeting here to thrash-out a common frame work for a solution between them,with Britain being involved on the security and guarantees issue,along with the EU. and U.N.
This way,Christophias can talk direct to Turkey on the issues which Talat keeps saying are beyond his authority etc and everyone can lay their cards on the table,the only problem being with the timing as Greece has an election in a few weeks(hopefully Papandreou will win with a clear majority).If Turkey are just bluffing about the whole thing then they will get egg on their face if the Greek Cypriots and Greece agree to the meeting-if not,then it will be their chance to prove they mean what they say?
The small details can then be worked out by Christophias,Talat and their advisors,rather than wasting interminable rounds of U.N. sponsored talks which have got nowhere for decades...
Why was this not done years ago as it has been suggested before and rejected by the Greek-Cypriots on legal techicalities who keep insisiting that the U.N. way is the only one???

An international conference including the tc side would mean you are equating the tc community with 3 other sovereign states.

The Framework for a settlement was worked out ages ago. Refer to UN Resolutions to which must be added ECHR Decisions and the usual human rights laws, international treaties like the Geneva Convention etc.

In any event, we went down this route in 1959 with the same look after self-interest culprits and look where it got us.

[Nikitas]

Cymart said:

"The reality is that since 1974,the Greek-Cypriots have not been responsible for Turkish Cypriot affairs anyway "

True, but after the settlement the GCs will be responsible, at least financially, responsible for TC affairs. If the two solve it on their own, the responsibility will be seen as a legitimate part of national development. If others are involved it will be seen as damages, ie the victims paying the cost of the invasion.

We must not forget the PR aspect of some processes.

[cymart]

Both sides are going to come down to earth with a bang if they think that international donors will pay most of the costs of a solution under the present world financial climate....in 2004 and before, things might have been different, but nowadays there will only be some contributions and funding and this is something that has to be sensibly considered.One way would be for the Greek-Cypriots to allow the other side a large degree of autonomy and make the T.C's liable for their own economic affairs?But Turkey will still be stuck with this burden in that case and I don't think this is what they have in mind at all!!