Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Zan asked why Iraklidis is a clown. Simple, Iraklidis refuses systematically to comment about blatant vilations of Greeks' human rights. He has refused to comment on the plight of the Greeks of Imvros and Tenedos, who were reduced from several thousand to 200 people today. He has nothing to say about the property laws applied in Istanbul which effectively expropriated Greek properties.

His view is so one sided that calling him a clown is being kind, because the other conclusion would be much worse.

He is characteristic of new generation of national defamators, a phenomenon which is not uniquely Greek, and is unhelpful no matter where it occurs.

Sener Levent also writes about his side's wrongdoings, but does not lay all the blame exclusively on TCs nor does he say that TCs should humilate themselves for the sake of anyone. But Iraklidis has a long way to go to reach to the intellectual stature of Levent, if he ever does.

[denizaksulu]

Of course GCs have "part of the blame". The question is how much of the blame each side has?

Lets see:

Turks:

1) The ones who started all conflicts and wars in Cyprus (1571 - 1821, 1958, 1974) and invaded multiple times our island.

2) They killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots.

3) They collaborated with other foreign Imperialists in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

4) Today they illegally occupy 1/3rd of Republic of Cyprus, continue to bring Turkish Settlers and continue to commit a vast number of human rights violations.

Cypriots:

1) In the conflicts and wars which the Turks started, they fought back killing some 100s of Turks.

So how much blame each side has?

Piratis, the article is for you and the likes of you.

Does the article refute anything from what I said? Are you willing to accept the far bigger part of blame that rests with the Turkish side?

What is it with you Piratis. You are consumed or obsessed with numbers; we began this and that earlier; you lived there longer, we killed more, you suffered more. For a 'supposed intelligent man' these numbers have no part in dealing with our future.

Oh, yes, please change the record.

[umit07]

By the way Lucas… do you suppose that this brilliant strategy could also work the other way round?

If Turkish Cypriots were to confess their wrong-doings would they finally get a recognized TC state?

Man… I’m starting to have premature ejaculations!

Confess your sins o’ Cypriots, and you shall be redeemed!!!

Could this nutty professor be God in disguise?

GR what is your problem? Anytime such articles appear, you start to spout total crap! Take it seriously for once.

Sorry Umit, but the notion that upon one side’s confession all would be hunky dory was too much for me to ignore!

GR, in a purely TC point of view, this article conveys the TC version of post 63' history. Which is, once the 13 points could not be passed, TC MP's were "forced" out of parliament. The author also mentions an armed wing of GC's, unofficially being led my Makarios against TC's, we refer to it as EOKA, without categorizing it with any distinction to the prior. TC's claim that there was a systematic policy of deprivation towards them in all aspects of day to day life. Which is the jist of the article.

Now the question about coming clean. I personally think it's far more important then any political negotiation for a settlement. I would have liked Talaturi and Chris to have sat down and provided us with an unbiased as possible common history, one we cannot be proud of but one that we would be proud of for having the balls to admit past wrongs. Understanding and learning from the past is the only way of creating empathy between both sides, it's also the only solid guarantee we can have to all living as "Cypriot's", in any future settlement.

[Viewpoint]

Obviously Greek Cypriots bear part of the blame. Christofias has stated so publicly and I heard him and seen him on CYBC say so more than once. He went further and stated that we have treated our TC compatriots inhumanely in the past and that we exhibited a racist attitude. These are facts that can be easily checked out.


Another fact that can be checked out is that Iraklidis is an intellectual clown. He writed for a major Greek daily and his writings can be used to verify his quality as a historian and analyst. As for Cyprus, he knows nothing, but pretends he knows a lot.

Is there anything we can read to confirm what you say about Christofiyas?

[Kikapu]

Obviously Greek Cypriots bear part of the blame. Christofias has stated so publicly and I heard him and seen him on CYBC say so more than once. He went further and stated that we have treated our TC compatriots inhumanely in the past and that we exhibited a racist attitude. These are facts that can be easily checked out.


Another fact that can be checked out is that Iraklidis is an intellectual clown. He writed for a major Greek daily and his writings can be used to verify his quality as a historian and analyst. As for Cyprus, he knows nothing, but pretends he knows a lot.

Is there anything we can read to confirm what you say about Christofiyas?

Christofias stated GCs wrong doings publicly towards the TCs before his first meeting with Talat a year ago. In return, Talat said nothing. We even discussed this in detail at the time if you remember. Obviously you do not remember.!

[Viewpoint]

Obviously Greek Cypriots bear part of the blame. Christofias has stated so publicly and I heard him and seen him on CYBC say so more than once. He went further and stated that we have treated our TC compatriots inhumanely in the past and that we exhibited a racist attitude. These are facts that can be easily checked out.


Another fact that can be checked out is that Iraklidis is an intellectual clown. He writed for a major Greek daily and his writings can be used to verify his quality as a historian and analyst. As for Cyprus, he knows nothing, but pretends he knows a lot.

Is there anything we can read to confirm what you say about Christofiyas?

Christofias stated GCs wrong doings publicly towards the TCs before his first meeting with Talat a year ago. In return, Talat said nothing. We even discussed this in detail at the time if you remember. Obviously you do not remember.!

Anything in writing? never trust people however official they always say they never said it just like the EU promises.

[Lit]

Loucas Charalambous is a complete loon. So are a few others that write for the Cyprus Mail. When ever Turks are reported in a bad light for their crime and violations you can best bet that ole Loucas is going to bring up the same fairy tale story and the funny part is---its all the same talking points. He bashes Phileleftheros. Drivels about Akritas. And fibs about the unarmed Turkish Cypriot youths. Oh, and he loves to mention that lecturer Alexis Heraclides. Here, let me prove it all to you now:

The same week that the U.S. Helsinki Commission reported on the wholesale destruction of everything non Turk in the North.... Charalambous wrote this article in the Cyprus Mail:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

That article was a few weeks old. But Charalambous hasnt been spewing the same drivel for weeks, no, he has been spewing the same drivel for years. In December 2005, The Greek Cypriot press was abuzz with the ECHR ruling in the case of Ms. Aresti. So what did Charalambous want to talk about....thats right, his usual drivel:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

So its no surprise, to me at least, on the timing of Charalambous recent drivel....too much attention is being given on the Limnitis fiasco so Charalambous feels the need to divert. If there is some shocking revelation in the near future about some Turkish actor who used GC babies as target practice back in 1974...you can best bet that the following day....Charalambous will be talking about Makarios, Phileleftheros, Akritas, and oh, Alexis Heraclides, isnt he wonderful? LOL

Wise words from Mr LC. I wonder if GCs will ever wake up. Understand the responsibility of the part they have played and reach out to their TC cousins with understanding rather than blame. We wait in anticipation that the pigs may fly.

It’s time for Greek Cypriots to take part of the blame
By Loucas Charalambous

“THE CYPRUS problem will be solved only when the Greek Cypriots admit and assume their responsibilities for its creation.”

The above observation, by university lecturer Alexis Heraclides, is probably the wisest view ever expressed in relation to the Cyprus problem. Its correctness is proved on a daily basis.

Because Greek Cypriots, with their behaviour, show that not only have they not recognised our side’s share of the blame but the denial of this gets worse with the passing of time. The obdurate refusal of the average Greek Cypriot to accept any blame for the mess we are in features triumphantly in the media every day.

The story about the 1974 execution of the five Greek Cypriot prisoners, whose remains were recently identified through DNA testing, provided a perfect opportunity for an exhibition of this mentality. Everyone urged the government to report Turkey to the world and demand the setting up of war tribunals to try the Turkish government.

It is as if we did not know for 35 years now that all these unfortunate individuals listed as missing by our state were dead, many of them having been captured and killed either by the Turkish troops or the Turkish Cypriots. Now everyone is pretending to be surprised – our state, political parties and newspapers – by the revelations about the execution of prisoners.

But had not Rauf Denktash officially informed us, many years ago, that there had been executions of prisoners in 1974? Why are we surprised now?

It is important to note that while everyone is calling for the setting up of tribunals to try Turkey for the execution of prisoners and civilians, nobody is prepared to admit that we were responsible for similar ‘achievements’ during the 1963-74 period, another decade of bloodshed.

In fact, when one journalist dared to refer to a similar crime by our side, all the super-patriots of the country, led by the super-patriots of Phileleftheros, turned on him. According to our most patriotic newspaper, all Turks and the Turkish state were responsible for all the killings of Greek Cypriots, while if there had been some ‘acts of extremism’ (this is how it refers to the killings of Turkish Cypriots), a few ‘extremist elements’ were to blame.

The super-patriots of Phileleftheros had never heard Nicos Koshis, the chief of staff of the Akritas Organisation, stating on television that the late Archbishop Makarios had set up the illegal organisation and had chaired meetings at the presidential palace, during which he personally gave instructions about its running and operations. It was the ‘fighters’ of this organisation who were killing Turkish Cypriot civilians and dumping them down wells in 1963.

A few days ago, on a radio show, a woman caller, was hysterically insisting that all that happened in 1963 was that Makarios proposed the amendment of 13 points of constitution for debate and the “Turks got up and left”. This is the only version of history that exists for most Greek Cypriots.

For as long as Greek Cypriots carry on living with their illusions, based on official myths, they will never be able to accept their share of the blame and the Cyprus problem would never be solved, as Heraclides correctly observed.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

[Piratis]

Of course GCs have "part of the blame". The question is how much of the blame each side has?

Lets see:

Turks:

1) The ones who started all conflicts and wars in Cyprus (1571 - 1821, 1958, 1974) and invaded multiple times our island.

2) They killed 10s of thousands of Cypriots.

3) They collaborated with other foreign Imperialists in order to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination.

4) Today they illegally occupy 1/3rd of Republic of Cyprus, continue to bring Turkish Settlers and continue to commit a vast number of human rights violations.

Cypriots:

1) In the conflicts and wars which the Turks started, they fought back killing some 100s of Turks.

So how much blame each side has?

Piratis, the article is for you and the likes of you.

Does the article refute anything from what I said? Are you willing to accept the far bigger part of blame that rests with the Turkish side?

What is it with you Piratis. You are consumed or obsessed with numbers; we began this and that earlier; you lived there longer, we killed more, you suffered more. For a 'supposed intelligent man' these numbers have no part in dealing with our future.

Oh, yes, please change the record.

The facts and the numbers have everything to do with who has what part of the blame my friend.

[The Cypriot]

Obviously Greek Cypriots bear part of the blame. Christofias has stated so publicly and I heard him and seen him on CYBC say so more than once. He went further and stated that we have treated our TC compatriots inhumanely in the past and that we exhibited a racist attitude. These are facts that can be easily checked out.


Another fact that can be checked out is that Iraklidis is an intellectual clown. He writed for a major Greek daily and his writings can be used to verify his quality as a historian and analyst. As for Cyprus, he knows nothing, but pretends he knows a lot.

Is there anything we can read to confirm what you say about Christofiyas?

Christofias stated GCs wrong doings publicly towards the TCs before his first meeting with Talat a year ago. In return, Talat said nothing. We even discussed this in detail at the time if you remember. Obviously you do not remember.!

Anything in writing? never trust people however official they always say they never said it just like the EU promises.

Yes... wriggle out of this you hatemonger...

http://news.pseka.net/index.php?module=article&id=9327

President Christofias said that some people react when the government calls for the proper chronicle of history and when it refers to the need to admit our mistakes, omissions and tragedies, for which we have responsibility. If this does not happen, how will reconciliation occur? the president remarked. He wondered when will we learn from the bitter experiences of the past for which the foreigners are to be blame but during our course we have also became responsible.

[insan]

Loucas Charalambous is a complete loon. So are a few others that write for the Cyprus Mail. When ever Turks are reported in a bad light for their crime and violations you can best bet that ole Loucas is going to bring up the same fairy tale story and the funny part is---its all the same talking points. He bashes Phileleftheros. Drivels about Akritas. And fibs about the unarmed Turkish Cypriot youths. Oh, and he loves to mention that lecturer Alexis Heraclides. Here, let me prove it all to you now:

The same week that the U.S. Helsinki Commission reported on the wholesale destruction of everything non Turk in the North.... Charalambous wrote this article in the Cyprus Mail:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

That article was a few weeks old. But Charalambous hasnt been spewing the same drivel for weeks, no, he has been spewing the same drivel for years. In December 2005, The Greek Cypriot press was abuzz with the ECHR ruling in the case of Ms. Aresti. So what did Charalambous want to talk about....thats right, his usual drivel:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.ph ... &archive=1

So its no surprise, to me at least, on the timing of Charalambous recent drivel....too much attention is being given on the Limnitis fiasco so Charalambous feels the need to divert. If there is some shocking revelation in the near future about some Turkish actor who used GC babies as target practice back in 1974...you can best bet that the following day....Charalambous will be talking about Makarios, Phileleftheros, Akritas, and oh, Alexis Heraclides, isnt he wonderful? LOL

Wise words from Mr LC. I wonder if GCs will ever wake up. Understand the responsibility of the part they have played and reach out to their TC cousins with understanding rather than blame. We wait in anticipation that the pigs may fly.

It’s time for Greek Cypriots to take part of the blame
By Loucas Charalambous

“THE CYPRUS problem will be solved only when the Greek Cypriots admit and assume their responsibilities for its creation.”

The above observation, by university lecturer Alexis Heraclides, is probably the wisest view ever expressed in relation to the Cyprus problem. Its correctness is proved on a daily basis.

Because Greek Cypriots, with their behaviour, show that not only have they not recognised our side’s share of the blame but the denial of this gets worse with the passing of time. The obdurate refusal of the average Greek Cypriot to accept any blame for the mess we are in features triumphantly in the media every day.

The story about the 1974 execution of the five Greek Cypriot prisoners, whose remains were recently identified through DNA testing, provided a perfect opportunity for an exhibition of this mentality. Everyone urged the government to report Turkey to the world and demand the setting up of war tribunals to try the Turkish government.

It is as if we did not know for 35 years now that all these unfortunate individuals listed as missing by our state were dead, many of them having been captured and killed either by the Turkish troops or the Turkish Cypriots. Now everyone is pretending to be surprised – our state, political parties and newspapers – by the revelations about the execution of prisoners.

But had not Rauf Denktash officially informed us, many years ago, that there had been executions of prisoners in 1974? Why are we surprised now?

It is important to note that while everyone is calling for the setting up of tribunals to try Turkey for the execution of prisoners and civilians, nobody is prepared to admit that we were responsible for similar ‘achievements’ during the 1963-74 period, another decade of bloodshed.

In fact, when one journalist dared to refer to a similar crime by our side, all the super-patriots of the country, led by the super-patriots of Phileleftheros, turned on him. According to our most patriotic newspaper, all Turks and the Turkish state were responsible for all the killings of Greek Cypriots, while if there had been some ‘acts of extremism’ (this is how it refers to the killings of Turkish Cypriots), a few ‘extremist elements’ were to blame.

The super-patriots of Phileleftheros had never heard Nicos Koshis, the chief of staff of the Akritas Organisation, stating on television that the late Archbishop Makarios had set up the illegal organisation and had chaired meetings at the presidential palace, during which he personally gave instructions about its running and operations. It was the ‘fighters’ of this organisation who were killing Turkish Cypriot civilians and dumping them down wells in 1963.

A few days ago, on a radio show, a woman caller, was hysterically insisting that all that happened in 1963 was that Makarios proposed the amendment of 13 points of constitution for debate and the “Turks got up and left”. This is the only version of history that exists for most Greek Cypriots.

For as long as Greek Cypriots carry on living with their illusions, based on official myths, they will never be able to accept their share of the blame and the Cyprus problem would never be solved, as Heraclides correctly observed.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

Just like how Şener Levent behaves, eh? U like Şener but hate Charalombous? Why?