Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

The Armenian CYPRIOT is Karoyan and he was the speaker of the house or parliament. He is a born and bred CYPRIOT.

You are deliberately avoiding the question, both of you.

How would you feel about a president of the federal republic of Cyprus being a mainland Greek born in GREECE and naturalised Cypriot?

And no, I do not want long rationalisations, I want your emotional reaction to such a possibility.

My gut reaction to any non Cypriot official would be to subvert and boycott him at every opportunity. Clear, honest, straight. That is how I feel. That is how most Cypriots feel and I have asked a few both TC and GC.

There is no need to get that far. It is possible to accomodate everyone without giving any non Cypriot power in Cyprus. Personally I would have no objection to an elected TC president, and I can think offhand of three people who inspire me more than any GC for that post. But settler, no way, never!

But you still felt it neccessary to point out his Armenian "Connections"....Then you didn't expect us to point out the same in a negative way

Gut feeling?...Honestly??.....I would not be surprised.....That was my honest feeling. Inevitable.

[Nikitas]

"Are you also able to accept COMPENSATION for GC property while you are going down that line???"

you have the crimes mixed up. Let me clarify.

Colonisation of occupied territory is a war crime per the UN charter. The perpetrator of the crime is Turkey. The settlers may be the unwitting means, and they cannot be punished in the place of Turkey, but neither can the displaced GCs be punished for the same crime. So, settlers get compensation for the inconveninence they suffer in being asked to leave property that does not belong to them.

Property and the right to it are recognised by the European Convention of Human Rights to which Turkey is a signatory. The numerous decisions of the ECHR state clearly that no occupation, expulsion etc, can extinguish a person's right to his property.

Hence compensation can be voluntary in the case of property if an when the owners decide they want to go that way.

[Nikitas]

Still not getting a clear answer, how would you feel about a Greek mainlander, born in Greece, naturalised Cypriot, becoming president of the federal republic of Cyprus?

[Nikitas]

As for Karoyan, if memory serves, that discussion had been about the ethnic purity of the political system in the TRNC. And the comparison was between the RoC where a person of non GC descent, but a CYPRIOT nonetheless, has achieved high office. And the challenge was whether the same is permitted by the system in the north. Can a Maronite Cypriot put himself up for election in the TRNC? Can he in fact get an ID card that shows his non Turkish roots? It would be interesting to compare.

[zan]

"Are you also able to accept COMPENSATION for GC property while you are going down that line???"

you have the crimes mixed up. Let me clarify.

Colonisation of occupied territory is a war crime per the UN charter. The perpetrator of the crime is Turkey. The settlers may be the unwitting means, and they cannot be punished in the place of Turkey, but neither can the displaced GCs be punished for the same crime. So, settlers get compensation for the inconveninence they suffer in being asked to leave property that does not belong to them.

Property and the right to it are recognised by the European Convention of Human Rights to which Turkey is a signatory. The numerous decisions of the ECHR state clearly that no occupation, expulsion etc, can extinguish a person's right to his property.

Hence compensation can be voluntary in the case of property if an when the owners decide they want to go that way.

You live in a place for 10,20 or forty years and then you get yanked out and sent away and thats an inconvenience??? Surely your humanity has to be looked at if you think that a person with a bit of paper that maybe has never visited the place still has claim over it regardless of human suffering.....Perhaps you would have taken half the baby in that famous story???

[Nikitas]

How about the people deprived of their land for 30 or 40 years? If someone moves in on someone else's land they know the score. They are lucky to get anything at all.

The proper place to complain is to those that decided to use these people as pawns in a corrupt game. We do not hear anything about them though. Have you forgiven them to the extent you can now placve the responsibility on the victims?

[Nikitas]

"sent away" needs some analysis. People from Erzerum, Antalya, Iskenderun appear in Cyprus 30 years ago. Where did they live and work before coming to take over my property? They did not materialise out of thin air.

What made them move over to an island they had never seen in their lives? What gives them the right to land in Zodia and how does that extinguish the rights of the native born Zodiates?

The same way these people moved to a strange land they can move back to their ancestral homes, enriched with enough money to start their lives where they belong.

[zan]

How about the people deprived of their land for 30 or 40 years? If someone moves in on someone else's land they know the score. They are lucky to get anything at all.

The proper place to complain is to those that decided to use these people as pawns in a corrupt game. We do not hear anything about them though. Have you forgiven them to the extent you can now placve the responsibility on the victims?

What was the number of people in the "RoC" in its conception in 1964 Nikitas??? Did you stand still in time and wait for a solution....? I think we can safely say that your population has risen, can we not? Perhaps we should expell all those that came onto the island from that point on but wait...Your population growth has got nothing to do with politics has it....You could have gotten on just fine without them....Are any more coming??? Natural migration you say...ell I say...If you are going to pick a point in time then apply it to both sides....What a nightmare scenario that would be...Would you say that it is impossible??? What you are doing is applying a strategy to apply to only one side and that is not fair. I bet a whole lot of GCs would shit their pants if they were under scrutiny as to whether they are full blown Cypriots or not....A few on this Forum for a start....

[Simon]

How about the people deprived of their land for 30 or 40 years? If someone moves in on someone else's land they know the score. They are lucky to get anything at all.

The proper place to complain is to those that decided to use these people as pawns in a corrupt game. We do not hear anything about them though. Have you forgiven them to the extent you can now placve the responsibility on the victims?

What was the number of people in the "RoC" in its conception in 1964 Nikitas??? Did you stand still in time and wait for a solution....? I think we can safely say that your population has risen, can we not? Perhaps we should expell all those that came onto the island from that point on but wait...Your population growth has got nothing to do with politics has it....You could have gotten on just fine without them....Are any more coming??? Natural migration you say...ell I say...If you are going to pick a point in time then apply it to both sides....What a nightmare scenario that would be...Would you say that it is impossible??? What you are doing is applying a strategy to apply to only one side and that is not fair. I bet a whole lot of GCs would shit their pants if they were under scrutiny as to whether they are full blown Cypriots or not....A few on this Forum for a start....

Zan, it is extremely insincere to equate small, steady, natural migration into the RoC from all areas of the world, which is consistent with what occurs in any democracy in the world, and the mass migration of Turkish settlers that have taken up stolen land. Turkish settlers outnumber TCs for god's sake! Turkey ensured that it took far more land than was needed (37%) so that it could change the demographics of the island. Turkey knew very well the problem it was creating when carrying out this scheme; they knew very well that GCs would want these settlers removed, but they did it anyway, in order to secure their illegal gains at GCs expense, claiming it is necessary for the settlers to remain on humanitarian grounds. Yet Turkey, by causing this problem, didn't care less about their humanitarian rights, so why should the GCs pay for a problem Turkey created? Let Turkey repatriate and compensate these settlers. They were very easily brought to Cyprus in vast numbers, so they can just as easily be shown the exit.

[halil]

The results of a crime do not make things right. An innocent buyer of stolen goods does not get title to them, they are returned to their true owner Halil.

Those who married TCs have the right to stay as would any foreigner who marries a Cypriot.

The rest get compensation and go home. These people did not materialise out of thin air, they came from some place where they had homes, family, jobs etc. Whatever hardship they endure will be compensated.

Letting settlers remain with full political rights will create a HUGE problem, firstly within the TC community and secondly over the whole island.

You must realise Halil that the prospect of having a non native Cypriot in high elected office will diminish the authority of the government instantly. Just ask yourself, and please be honest, how you would feel if the president of the Federal Republic werw a mainland Greek?
If you are honest with yourself then you know how GCs feel about settlers.

Nikitas,
Those who married TCs have the right to stay as would any foreigner who marries a Cypriot.

haaa ..... they can stay you are saying .
how u will feel in a such a agreement at bbf solution if she or he decides to return to Paphos or Limassol to live over their .Because the person which she or he married family has got a property in south.Are u going to accept him or her.

how you would feel if the president of the Federal Republic werw a mainland Greek?

For me it would not matter Nikitas . If we look at our old roots it goes to same door .

one way or other way our DNA's are changing everyday . The way we are going will show us Cypriots wouldn't be compose of TC's,GC's,Armanian Cypriots or Maronite Cypriots.
It will be any combinations .
TC+Settler .TC+English, TC+other nations ....
GC+Greek, GC+Pontions.GC+other nations . It can be easily seen now in Cyprus . Everyday marring with foreigner are increasing . very increasing numbers for Russian girls too.


b]Letting settlers remain with full political rights will create a HUGE problem, firstly within the TC community and secondly over the whole island. [/b]

I didn't ignore the above fact .If u look at the my previous writings.


The rest get compensation and go home.

u will not like again to talk about Annan Plan . I said yes to Annan plan also 65 % of TC'S said yes for it . Its mean here we are not against this idea .Also do not forget also settler said yes as well.