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Bakoyiannis on system of guarantees

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Kikapu » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:06 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:
Except in Paphos, where TCs seem to be getting on just fine.



How do you know they are getting on just fine? the sheer numbers tell you that the majority of TCs prefer the TRNC to the GC south.


They told me they were getting along just fine in April 2007.

"Kikapu's Time in Cyprus"


Page 2

At midday we had finally woken up but breakfast that we paid for (Bed & Breakfast) was over 2 hours earlier so it was time to get up and start exploring Cyprus. After having something to eat at the promenade, by the Larnaca Marina, we visited the Larnaca's Castle / Fort, then to the Turkish sector. We visited the Al Kebir Mosque, which was under repairs, but was wide open with no one there. I was thinking to my self, why were there no graffiti on the walls or damage to inside by the Nationalist GC. As we walked around the corner, I could hear Turkish being spoken. Again, I was warned by Lana not to speak Turkish while visiting Cyprus, so not to create any problems for ourselves. So we approached these elderly gentlemen, about 4 of them. They were in fact 1 TC, 2 GC's and 1 Armenian. So I joined in the conversation, explaining to them who I was and my purpose in Cyprus. I asked them if there were any problems for the TC's living in Larnaca, which the TC said, " No problems at all, and that they got along just fine". He had a small shoe shop, and offered me any assistance that I may need, while in Larnaca. He also spoke Greek, who was originally from "Tahtagali", a name of an area that I remember hearing when I was a child in Cyprus. It may be in Nicosia. Soon after, another man, a TC came on his moped to join in the conversation. We then visited the St. Lazarus Church.


Page 6.

Next day, it was time to explore Paphos, on our way to next hotel, which was to be in Limassol, so we went to all the Historic and Archaeological sites and places. We then walked through the Turkish sector of the town. Just as the buildings are in Larnaca, they were very much the same here. Mostly old and somewhat run down. Again, I heard Turkish being spoken between a young lady and an older women. There was also a child with them, so I walked over to speak with them. I asked how many TC's lived here, and the response was 50. I asked if they spoke Greek or English, and the answer was "No". I asked how it was living amongst the GC's, and was told me, that they did not have problems. I asked, why they did not go and live in the "TRNC", and the answer was, “they wanted to live in Paphos”, but some family members did live in the “TRNC", and that they visit each other, now and again. I asked if anyone was working in the family, and the older women said that her husband was working with the GC's, and that he spoke Greek. I forgot to ask them, if the kids went to school, and if it was a Turkish school or not.


http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11420
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:13 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Simon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Simon you still havent grasped it have you, we have every right to every part of this island..we fought for survival and created a safe haven call the TRNC time you got it into your head that we have just as much weight as you do with our right to demand safeguards and guarantees, if we say no there is nothing you can do about it. Time you realized that the only way you can get this island to unite is to compromise and accept that we have just as much say as you do.


No VP, it is you that clearly has not grasped "it", as is clearly evidenced from your post.

Turkish Cypriots have the right to be part of this island, like every other Cypriot citizen. However, they do not have the right to take a part of this island, declare it a Turkish state, and deny the legal inhabitants the basic human right of returning to their properties. You did not fight for survival, you fought for partition, and created an illegal state. By making unreasonable demands, you believe the GCs will capitulate because there is "nothing we can do about it" as you put it. This is your arrogance which will in the end be your downfall. You are illegally occupying land that does not belong to you, and it does not matter how many troops you put in the north, nothing will change that. Therefore, it is time you realised that until you return to legality and drop your ridiculous demands, there will be no solution, and you will always be isolated, whilst at the same time militarizing your "state" even more, always looking over your shoulder. You may think you're living in a "safe haven" VP, but in actual fact, you're right in the firing line.


VP wrote:
TCs have the right to protection and if that means the TRNC then thats how it will be.


TCs have the same rights as every other Cypriot citizen, no more. Of course this means you have the right to be safe, just like GCs do, this is what the law is for, along with EU safeguards. It does not mean that you can take a piece of Cyprus and call it Turkish, declare an "independent state" on stolen land, import thousands of settlers to alter the demographics of the island, change the names of the towns, villages and roads, deny the legal occupants the right to their properties, loot churches and sell religious symbols on the black market. Remember VP, TCs have just as much blame, if not more, for the violence of the 1960s, and certainly do not deserve any more than any other Cypriot. TCs are living safe and sound in the RoC right now. They are not suffering daily attacks. You are living in the past and have not recognised how much things have changed. Guess what...GCs no longer seek enosis, there is no junta anymore, Cyprus is a member of the EU, and all of its citizens are protected by the rule of law. But I know that this is all an act VP. You are a charlatan. You make out that you are so terrified of the GCs, and put on this pretence that you are convinced GCs are blood hungry and just waiting to wipe out the TCs as soon as they get the chance, hence you need all this protection in a prison "state", but deep down you know what incredulous rubbish this is. It is simply a cover for your true feelings. The truth VP is that you are a racist. It is clear to anybody who lifts the veil of every one of your posts. You are about scaremongering; trying to convince TCs never to trust GCs under any circumstances, unless GCs agree to gift a third of the island to Turkey. You are a racist nationalist who can't stand the thought of TCs living peacefully with GCs. This is why you questioned The Cypriot on this very point in another thread. The very fact that TCs and GCs can live together peacefully breaks your heart, because it is a blow to your aims, and you try to suppress it wherever you find it, lest TCs might actually start to believe that they don't need Turkey after all.

VP wrote:
You have your chnace to build an equal nation in 1960 but you messed up big time. 35 years has proven that the north is a safe haven for TCs compared to living with you people during the 1960s its not just a safe haven but heaven not to be put into so much danger.


VP, TCs started the violence in the 1960s. Stop pretending that TCs were somehow innocent bystanders that bloodthirsty GCs just decided to wipe out one day. TCs were just as eager to destroy the 1960 Constitution as the GCs were. And that's even with the 1960 Constitution clearly weighted in your favour. The "TRNC" is a heaven for you because it is what you always wanted, a racist partition where you can gain on others' losses and create an ethnically pure Turkish state. But we will never allow this to be legally accepted. It might feel safe for you to live there at the moment, but just remember, there are a lot of people that are just waiting for the opportunity to overturn the status quo, not because you are Turkish Cypriots and we are Greek Cypriots, but because you are thieves and legality and justice must be served.

VP wrote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.


No, you are arrogant because you believe due to the fact that Turkey is militarily stronger than Cyprus, that you can bring any terms to the negotiation table that suits you, and unless we simply capitulate, Cyprus will remain forever divided. This is the type of rigid, uncomprimising attitude that will eventually be your downfall. VP, I cannot reduce or increase your community. I can only relay the facts to you. The fact is that the TCs are a minority. They are a minority just like any other minority in the world. You are no different to anybody else. As long as all individual rights are safeguarded and Cyprus has anti-discrimination laws (which it does) then you shouldn't have a problem. A community of 18% should not be able to dictate to the other 82%. It is undemocratic and unworkable.
Last edited by Simon on Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby eleni » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:19 pm

VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:33 pm

eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:36 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.


Actually, you were probably originally GCs that became Muslims under Ottoman rule. I bet that makes you shudder VP, to think there could be Greek blood coursing through your veins.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:42 pm

Simon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.


Actually, you were probably originally GCs that became Muslims under Ottoman rule. I bet that makes you shudder VP, to think there could be Greek blood coursing through your veins.


What I am today is what is important.
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Postby YFred » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:46 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Simon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.


Actually, you were probably originally GCs that became Muslims under Ottoman rule. I bet that makes you shudder VP, to think there could be Greek blood coursing through your veins.


What I am today is what is important.

Isn't that why TCs get circumcised, to remove the GC blood from their veins?
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Postby insan » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:47 pm

Simon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.


Actually, you were probably originally GCs that became Muslims under Ottoman rule. I bet that makes you shudder VP, to think there could be Greek blood coursing through your veins.


My father's ancestors r from Alaminos village. Let's read what a GC historian tells abt the Turks settled down to Alaminos...

N. G. Kyriazis reports that "genuine Turks" inhabited Alaminos, thus the village was a mediaeval feud that the Turks misappropriated after the conquest of Cyprus in 1570-1571, a thing that happened to many other villages of Cyprus.


http://www.alaminos.org/english/history.html

Alaminos was one of the mixed villages TCs didn't give it a different name but pronounce the name of the village a bit different than GCs. We pronounce the name of the village as Aleminyo or Alaminyo.

Dengiz, can u plz tell me what's the difference of a Turk and a "genuine Turk"? Hocam lütfen... :wink:
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:49 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Simon wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
eleni wrote:VP wrote:
Quote:
Its your arrgance that makes you feel we are being arrogant when in fact your aim is to reduce us to minority status and th whole of Cyprus into a GC state run by GCs. allowing them to do as they wish crushing the TCs into oblivion.

If you go to the link and have a look at the very last sentence I'm afraid I think you will find you are also in the minority where you are.




http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-cypriots


A minority amongst Turks. do you know were are also Turkish in origin how can you be a minority amongst your own origins.


Actually, you were probably originally GCs that became Muslims under Ottoman rule. I bet that makes you shudder VP, to think there could be Greek blood coursing through your veins.


What I am today is what is important.


Well you mentioned your origins, sorry if what I said sat uncomfortably. :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:02 am

Simon
TCs have the same rights as every other Cypriot citizen, no more. Of course this means you have the right to be safe, just like GCs do, this is what the law is for, along with EU safeguards. It does not mean that you can take a piece of Cyprus and call it Turkish, declare an "independent state" on stolen land, import thousands of settlers to alter the demographics of the island, change the names of the towns, villages and roads, deny the legal occupants the right to their properties, loot churches and sell religious symbols on the black market. Remember VP, TCs have just as much blame, if not more, for the violence of the 1960s, and certainly do not deserve any more than any other Cypriot. TCs are living safe and sound in the RoC right now. They are not suffering daily attacks. You are living in the past and have not recognised how much things have changed. Guess what...GCs no longer seek enosis, there is no junta anymore, Cyprus is a member of the EU, and all of its citizens are protected by the rule of law. But I know that this is all an act VP. You are a charlatan. You make out that you are so terrified of the GCs, and put on this pretence that you are convinced GCs are blood hungry and just waiting to wipe out the TCs as soon as they get the chance, hence you need all this protection in a prison "state", but deep down you know what incredulous rubbish this is. It is simply a cover for your true feelings. The truth VP is that you are a racist. It is clear to anybody who lifts the veil of every one of your posts. You are about scaremongering; trying to convince TCs never to trust GCs under any circumstances, unless GCs agree to gift a third of the island to Turkey. You are a racist nationalist who can't stand the thought of TCs living peacefully with GCs. This is why you questioned The Cypriot on this very point in another thread. The very fact that TCs and GCs can live together peacefully breaks your heart, because it is a blow to your aims, and you try to suppress it wherever you find it, lest TCs might actually start to believe that they don't need Turkey after all.


I am what I am if you dont like it then thats your problem not mine. Your just saying all will be OK take that leap of faith is not enough there ahs to be clear guide lines, safeguards and guarantees to make both sides stick to the rules....neither side trusts the other and we feel you will try to stab us in the back at every opportunity. We are 110% certain you will exploit your numerical advanatage to our determent and push us to one side with no effective say in our own future, this we can never accept and need safeguards that will never allow you the opportunity.

As for living together I have no problem with that but people on both sides of the divide have to be given the option to decide themselves where they wish to live either in the North state under TC administration or the South state under GC administration you cannot force ones rule on the other sooner or later it will collapse.

VP, TCs started the violence in the 1960s. Stop pretending that TCs were somehow innocent bystanders that bloodthirsty GCs just decided to wipe out one day. TCs were just as eager to destroy the 1960 Constitution as the GCs were. And that's even with the 1960 Constitution clearly weighted in your favour. The "TRNC" is a heaven for you because it is what you always wanted, a racist partition where you can gain on others' losses and create an ethnically pure Turkish state. But we will never allow this to be legally accepted. It might feel safe for you to live there at the moment, but just remember, there are a lot of people that are just waiting for the opportunity to overturn the status quo, not because you are Turkish Cypriots and we are Greek Cypriots, but because you are thieves and legality and justice must be served.


We have been over this many times and we can agree to disagee, all we know becuase we have survived no thanks to GCs to live in peace for 35 years, in comparison we were out numbered discriminated and persecuted in a so called united cyprus where the majority abused their rights to the determent of TCs. The TRNC will always be a monument to your own mistakes and continued arrogance to have the vision or capacity to reunite this island taking into account that it will be under a BBF with poitical equality of the 2 states. We are partners and not just some minority your own constitution tells you so yet you choose to ignore it at your own loss.

No, you are arrogant because you believe due to the fact that Turkey is militarily stronger than Cyprus, that you can bring any terms to the negotiation table that suits you, and unless we simply capitulate, Cyprus will remain forever divided. This is the type of rigid, uncomprimising attitude that will eventually be your downfall. VP, I cannot reduce or increase your community. I can only relay the facts to you. The fact is that the TCs are a minority. They are a minority just like any other minority in the world. You are no different to anybody else. As long as all individual rights are safeguarded and Cyprus has anti-discrimination laws (which it does) then you shouldn't have a problem. A community of 18% should not be able to dictate to the other 82%. It is undemocratic and unworkable.


Now the shoe is on the other foot you call it arrogance ut when you were in the same position 35 years ago you called it your right, the fact you have to deal with is that you must try to comprehend that whats on the table is a BBF of 2 states with a political balance that will never allow you the right to turn us into just another minority and protect our right for a say in our own future and security, If as you ay all these things are provided for by the "roc" and the EU then why do you oppose them so much and will not commit to them again? what are you afraid of can you not trust yourselves or do you really have ulterior motives as we always suspect.
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