Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

I do wonder why I even bother with this brainless fool who suffers from the effects of Americanodaxtilo up his rear . What a stupendous plonker , he even justifies and excuses 9/11 as well as 7/7 ..
Let it be known , if not already , that those who excuse such vile acts are themselves mentally deranged .
Its like excusing an attack on a baby by trying to understand the motives that the perpetrator might have had.
GR and his likes are insane Plonkers of the first degree .

[Talisker]

Mr Plonker , the fucking barbarians that kill innocent men women and children need no analyzing . They are savages , makes no difference if they are road sweepers or brain surgeons , the fact that the blow themselves up indiscriminately killing innocent people is enough for most people to draw conclusion as to their mental capacity.
Those that want to understand why these savages undertaker such barbaric act are themselves fucking idiots !

Looks like you have no curiosity, or willingness to comprehend the problems experienced by these individuals and the societies within which they live. Problems to which we contribute.

Understand the problems and you have a chance to solve them. But apparently you have no wish to do this.

I'm guessing I'll get a barrowload of abuse for this too!

Who wants to indulge the stupidity of plonkers who who believe that by blowing themselves up after shouting 'allah snack bar' they'll get 72 virgins, take the Glasgow airport bombers for instance; the only virgins in Galsgow are all under 10 years.

It's not a question of 'indulging stupidity', but it does relate to understanding the issues so that efforts can be made to reduce the incidence of these atrocities. Your insult aimed at the good people of Glasgow (presumably to wind me up as a Scotsman) is pathetic, and illustrates the fact that you are incapable of (i) posting factual information, and (ii) maintaining a civilised discussion no matter the topic. Idiot.......

[miltiades]

Had an EOKA member of 1955-59, strapped explosives around his waist and driven into a British outpost/base taking enemy lives and buildings with him, would this man have been a “savage” or a “hero” Miltiades?

Let me make one thing abundantly clear.
In a struggle of independence such as the EOKA , any action against the enemy would be justified in that you are fighting your enemy . When action against innocent civilians irrespective as to who they are takes place it is the duty of all civilized human beings to condemn such act.

The distinction here is simple.
The suicide bomber does not target the "enemy " but targets specifically and in a premeditated fashion innocent men women and children.What you and many others fail to draw a distinction is that the savage who enters a Mosque , or a public market , or a bus and proceeds to cause as much death and injury is not engaged in a struggle of any sort but engaged in the act of savagery .
I detest suicide bombers and I consider them all to be barbarians , even the Tamil Tigers who mostly , if not exclusively targeted military and government targets .

Hamas on the other hand targets civilians , Iraqi insurgents target civilians just as the Taliban and Pakistani savages.

[Talisker]

TALISKER , WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THIS CRAP ONCE AGAIN :
There two main purposes it says , what absolute nonsense , there is one only purpose to kill innocent bystanders , they don't give a shit if there are children or pregnant women . It goes on to say such rubbish that these savages are quite "normal people "
Rubbish written by plonkers of the highest level .
Just read this crap :

"""""There are two main purposes of the suicide bomber; to spread terror and to disrupt peace. But then an onlooker would wonder, aren’t there other ways of doing this besides the extreme act of killing yourself? In this respect the social psychologist Albert Bandura (Tangled Roots: Social and Psychological Factors in the Genesis of Terrorism by Jeffrey Ivan Victoroff) presents the very interesting and most relevant notion of moral disengagement. He states that terrorists such as suicide bombers are not abnormal individuals or psychopaths who lack morality not are they hungry to spill the blood of innocent people indiscriminately. Rather on the contrary they are very normal people who under certain circumstances and inducements are capable of selectively extricating their moral code to engage in extreme inhumane conduct. In the case of the Pakistani suicide bomber this inducement would be that the only way to stop the democratic process would be to rip the country apart with anarchism and a ‘revolution’. The carrot to the rabbit in the case of the Pakistani bomber is also the notion that democracy is synonymous with subservience to the United States.""""

I can see the logic in the information presented within this paragraph Miltiades. i believe there is also a lot of truth in the following excerpt:

Bandura writes:

‘Just as soldiers can go to battle to fight and kill for their country, terrorists can engage in violence to promote a cause. To be sure, soldiers must be trained to overcome their inhibitions to kill others, but this behavior modification is not seen as immoral by most societies’ indeed, it is rewarded with medals, venerated in public ceremonies and idealized as heroic sacrifices when soldiers are killed in actions. Similarly, terrorists can frame their violent deeds as moral acts in the service of their people, country or God’.

I can believe this. One of my heroes in my own life is an uncle who was a Lancaster pilot in WW2. He is as nice a man as you could ever meet. But the fact is that he carried out actions which undoubtedly resulted in death and destruction on a massive scale. I've been to Dresden and the resulting physical damage from that infamous raid is there for all to see, even to this day. What can't be seen are the tens of thousands of dead. Now, of course, my uncle was participating in a war against a tyrannical Nazi regime - fighting for freedom. And was prepared to risk his life to carry out his orders to drop bombs on German cities with resultant indicriminate killing. All Germans were 'the enemy' whether they were top-ranking Nazis or women and children. And society is conditioned to respect the actions of those who risked, and remember those who lost, their lives in defending our freedom - so we are accepting of the fact that indiscriminate killing is an acceptable means to an end - ultimate victory over the oppressor.

Compare this with the Iraqi suicide bomber. I can see that he (or she) believes they are fighting against the oppressive invaders or puppet government and authorities. The 'cause' is liberation from this regime, and the methods used can be brutal and indiscriminate as we have seen over the last few years (and therefore not dissimilar to bombing a city at night from a Lancaster bomber from a height of several thousand feet). This person has convinced themselves (or been convinced by others) that they are contributing to this cause by 'sacrificing' their own life and killing others.

Now I don't condone the actions of the terrorist suicide bomber. It is wrong. But I want to understand WHY they do it. Apparently you don't.

[miltiades]

TALISKER , kindly see the distinction here . The Iraqi savage targets innocent civilians , not " oppressive military targets " How does one fight invaders by blowing himself up in a Mosque for fs ! They are barbarians unquestionably .
I do agree that they have been brainwashed by religious extremists who indoctrinated their minds and filled them up with the usual rubbish , paradise , virgins , rewards in afterlife etc etc. In fact many years ago I posted that for as long as the M.East nations have their God as their driving force there will always be killings , wars , famine , deceases and much more . The cancerous driving force is religion.

""""Compare this with the Iraqi suicide bomber. I can see that he (or she) believes they are fighting against the oppressive invaders or puppet government and authorities. The 'cause' is liberation from this regime, and the methods used can be brutal and indiscriminate as we have seen over the last few years (and therefore not dissimilar to bombing a city at night from a Lancaster bomber from a height of several thousand feet). This person has convinced themselves (or been convinced by others) that they are contributing to this cause by 'sacrificing' their own life and killing others.""""

[Pax]

Are suicide bombers bad or mentally deranged, Miltiades ? If they're bad (evil doers) then they're reasoning people. If they're mentally deranged then they can't work out good acts from bad acts, therefore they can't be evil. Are bomber pilots bad or mentally deranged ? I'm a bit confused by your explanation and thought that you could clear it up.

[Talisker]

TALISKER , kindly see the distinction here . The Iraqi savage targets innocent civilians , not " oppressive military targets " How does one fight invaders by blowing himself up in a Mosque for fs ! They are barbarians unquestionably .
I do agree that they have been brainwashed by religious extremists who indoctrinated their minds and filled them up with the usual rubbish , paradise , virgins , rewards in afterlife etc etc. In fact many years ago I posted that for as long as the M.East nations have their God as their driving force there will always be killings , wars , famine , deceases and much more . The cancerous driving force is religion.

""""Compare this with the Iraqi suicide bomber. I can see that he (or she) believes they are fighting against the oppressive invaders or puppet government and authorities. The 'cause' is liberation from this regime, and the methods used can be brutal and indiscriminate as we have seen over the last few years (and therefore not dissimilar to bombing a city at night from a Lancaster bomber from a height of several thousand feet). This person has convinced themselves (or been convinced by others) that they are contributing to this cause by 'sacrificing' their own life and killing others.""""

In fact the article argues that religion is not the dominating force in persuading an individual to become a suicide bomber.

It is easy to put a religious label on these individuals but religion has little to do with it or their motives for taking their own lives. If religion has any role in the entire chemistry, it is only to have been used as the perfect blackmailing element to distort the image of right from wrong in the psyche of the bomber. Fact of the matter is, had the notion of religion been clear in the minds of these individuals, they would never be suicide bombers at all. So religion can easily be set aside as the primary reason.

If I recall correctly many of the suicide bombings are targeted - many instances of queues of young men volunteering to join the Iraqi police force, etc. Where they are apparently indiscriminate then this is obviously a ploy to terrorise the populace, a common practice used by dissident groups fighting a repressive regime. Didn't EOKA kill more GCs than Brits in 1955-59? I consider this part of an overall plan to terrorise the population so there was complete compliance with the wishes and tactics of this ruthless dissident group. They could then claim to 'have the support of the people'.

[miltiades]

TALISKER , kindly see the distinction here . The Iraqi savage targets innocent civilians , not " oppressive military targets " How does one fight invaders by blowing himself up in a Mosque for fs ! They are barbarians unquestionably .
I do agree that they have been brainwashed by religious extremists who indoctrinated their minds and filled them up with the usual rubbish , paradise , virgins , rewards in afterlife etc etc. In fact many years ago I posted that for as long as the M.East nations have their God as their driving force there will always be killings , wars , famine , deceases and much more . The cancerous driving force is religion.

""""Compare this with the Iraqi suicide bomber. I can see that he (or she) believes they are fighting against the oppressive invaders or puppet government and authorities. The 'cause' is liberation from this regime, and the methods used can be brutal and indiscriminate as we have seen over the last few years (and therefore not dissimilar to bombing a city at night from a Lancaster bomber from a height of several thousand feet). This person has convinced themselves (or been convinced by others) that they are contributing to this cause by 'sacrificing' their own life and killing others.""""

In fact the article argues that religion is not the dominating force in persuading an individual to become a suicide bomber.

It is easy to put a religious label on these individuals but religion has little to do with it or their motives for taking their own lives. If religion has any role in the entire chemistry, it is only to have been used as the perfect blackmailing element to distort the image of right from wrong in the psyche of the bomber. Fact of the matter is, had the notion of religion been clear in the minds of these individuals, they would never be suicide bombers at all. So religion can easily be set aside as the primary reason.

If I recall correctly many of the suicide bombings are targeted - many instances of queues of young men volunteering to join the Iraqi police force, etc. Where they are apparently indiscriminate then this is obviously a ploy to terrorise the populace, a common practice used by dissident groups fighting a repressive regime. Didn't EOKA kill more GCs than Brits in 1955-59? I consider this part of an overall plan to terrorise the population so there was complete compliance with the wishes and tactics of this ruthless dissident group. They could then claim to 'have the support of the people'.

NO , most suicide attacks have taken place in markets , Mosques , buses , funeral processions and other public places .
EOKA did not execute more G/ Cypriots than British soldiers and neither did EOKA target civilians . I lived through the EOKA era and I can vouch that the people were NOT terrorised .Those that became informers were indeed in fear of their lives but that is normal in such circumstances.
I have personal experiences gained through my older brother being an EOKA active member and my self in the youth EOKA movement of ANE ,.

[Paphitis]

TALISKER , kindly see the distinction here . The Iraqi savage targets innocent civilians , not " oppressive military targets " How does one fight invaders by blowing himself up in a Mosque for fs ! They are barbarians unquestionably .
I do agree that they have been brainwashed by religious extremists who indoctrinated their minds and filled them up with the usual rubbish , paradise , virgins , rewards in afterlife etc etc. In fact many years ago I posted that for as long as the M.East nations have their God as their driving force there will always be killings , wars , famine , deceases and much more . The cancerous driving force is religion.

""""Compare this with the Iraqi suicide bomber. I can see that he (or she) believes they are fighting against the oppressive invaders or puppet government and authorities. The 'cause' is liberation from this regime, and the methods used can be brutal and indiscriminate as we have seen over the last few years (and therefore not dissimilar to bombing a city at night from a Lancaster bomber from a height of several thousand feet). This person has convinced themselves (or been convinced by others) that they are contributing to this cause by 'sacrificing' their own life and killing others.""""

In fact the article argues that religion is not the dominating force in persuading an individual to become a suicide bomber.

It is easy to put a religious label on these individuals but religion has little to do with it or their motives for taking their own lives. If religion has any role in the entire chemistry, it is only to have been used as the perfect blackmailing element to distort the image of right from wrong in the psyche of the bomber. Fact of the matter is, had the notion of religion been clear in the minds of these individuals, they would never be suicide bombers at all. So religion can easily be set aside as the primary reason.

If I recall correctly many of the suicide bombings are targeted - many instances of queues of young men volunteering to join the Iraqi police force, etc. Where they are apparently indiscriminate then this is obviously a ploy to terrorise the populace, a common practice used by dissident groups fighting a repressive regime. Didn't EOKA kill more GCs than Brits in 1955-59? I consider this part of an overall plan to terrorise the population so there was complete compliance with the wishes and tactics of this ruthless dissident group. They could then claim to 'have the support of the people'.

Unfortunately, there were some GCs that collaborated with the British. Most collaborated for financial gain, a few left winged GCs collaborated with the Brits because they wanted to undermine Grivas, due to the role he played in the Greek Civil War. Many communists wanted to destroy Grivas for this reason. However, allow me to point out that most leftist GCs did support the EOKA struggle and some of the armed EOKA fighters were leftist. So as far as Grivas was concerned, the EOKA struggle was purely against British rule in Cyprus, and was not based on political ideology. As a result, they enjoyed the support of the overwhelming majority. There were many Auxiliaries that were supporting EOKA at the time. Students were recruited, older men would gather intelligence within the towns, priests and villagers would supply the Guerrillas with food, rations and even deliver weapons.

GCs were only targeted by EOKA if they were deemed to be collaborating with the British. This did send a very clear message to the population, and as a result all GCs resigned from the Police Force. Any collaboration with the British that led to the capture of any EOKA fighters or Auxiliaries was viewed as the ultimate betrayal to the struggle. It was also the biggest threat to the campaign itself.

[Get Real!]

Mr Plonker , the fucking barbarians that kill innocent men women and children need no analyzing . They are savages , makes no difference if they are road sweepers or brain surgeons , the fact that the blow themselves up indiscriminately killing innocent people is enough for most people to draw conclusion as to their mental capacity.
Those that want to understand why these savages undertaker such barbaric act are themselves fucking idiots !

Looks like you have no curiosity, or willingness to comprehend the problems experienced by these individuals and the societies within which they live. Problems to which we contribute.

Understand the problems and you have a chance to solve them. But apparently you have no wish to do this.

I'm guessing I'll get a barrowload of abuse for this too!

Who wants to indulge the stupidity of plonkers who who believe that by blowing themselves up after shouting 'allah snack bar' they'll get 72 virgins, take the Glasgow airport bombers for instance; the only virgins in Galsgow are all under 10 years.

It's not a question of 'indulging stupidity', but it does relate to understanding the issues so that efforts can be made to reduce the incidence of these atrocities. Your insult aimed at the good people of Glasgow (presumably to wind me up as a Scotsman) is pathetic, and illustrates the fact that you are incapable of (i) posting factual information, and (ii) maintaining a civilised discussion no matter the topic. Idiot.......

Interestingly, both Miltiades and FoulSpirit have had no tertiary education so they never really learned how to learn…