Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Lets make the GCs happy these poor children were not killed its just a figment of our imagination, however they are position the crime is hideous and its like claiming the TCs and Turks did not kill any GCs they did it to themselves.

Who is alleging that?

The Gc stance of deviating from the death of these innocent children and sick denial twistedmenatlity of placing the blame on TCs. Do we in turn say that the GCs killed themselves for propaganda purposes?

The point is that the hardline nationalist Turkish Cypriot leadership of the time decided to exploit this particular tragic incident for propaganda purposes. The scene of this crime, as you well know, has been turned into a museum (known as the 'Museum of Barbarism') which a couple of generations of Turkish Cypriot children have been required to visit as part of the school curriculum. As such, this case invites greater scrutiny than it would otherwise merit. There is evidence that the bodies at the crime scene were moved to make a better propaganda picture and this, in my view, casts doubt on the sincerity and true motives of those who did this.

Tim, this scene is barbaric enough with or without dressing. Dressing it in any way does not reduce its ferocity. Judging by the number of pages the GC devote to the history of Cyprus 1960-74, we do not need any lessons from the GCs about our school curriculum.

An excellent point, old fellow, and one that invites the question as to why this Stalinesque technique was employed.

Should we have just let it slip why do you not also question the pictures of soloman at ledra palace crossing each side is as bad as the other but everyone seems to concentrate only on what the TCs and their fight to make themselves heard. The museum is a symbol of GC venom and aggression this should never be forgotten and learned from so that future generations do not expose themselves to the GC mentality that can put them in similar fatal dangers.

According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_c ... s_conflict

In total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964.

Each of these deaths was a tragedy and none of them deserves to be ‘let slip’. However, the point is that the nationalist TC leadership at the time chose to dress up this one particular incident and launch a major propaganda initiative around it. In a sense, they were in the process letting all the other deaths ‘slip’ in comparison. By courting so much publicity for one particular instance of mass murder, they have inevitably also invited much more intense scrutiny of this event.

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

[Kikapu]

Lets make the GCs happy these poor children were not killed its just a figment of our imagination, however they are position the crime is hideous and its like claiming the TCs and Turks did not kill any GCs they did it to themselves.

Who is alleging that?

The Gc stance of deviating from the death of these innocent children and sick denial twistedmenatlity of placing the blame on TCs. Do we in turn say that the GCs killed themselves for propaganda purposes?

The point is that the hardline nationalist Turkish Cypriot leadership of the time decided to exploit this particular tragic incident for propaganda purposes. The scene of this crime, as you well know, has been turned into a museum (known as the 'Museum of Barbarism') which a couple of generations of Turkish Cypriot children have been required to visit as part of the school curriculum. As such, this case invites greater scrutiny than it would otherwise merit. There is evidence that the bodies at the crime scene were moved to make a better propaganda picture and this, in my view, casts doubt on the sincerity and true motives of those who did this.

Tim, this scene is barbaric enough with or without dressing. Dressing it in any way does not reduce its ferocity. Judging by the number of pages the GC devote to the history of Cyprus 1960-74, we do not need any lessons from the GCs about our school curriculum.

An excellent point, old fellow, and one that invites the question as to why this Stalinesque technique was employed.

I just can't believe what you are saying. Can you not see that there is no comparison between killing these innocent people and trying to make propaganda out of it out of desperation because TCs very survival was in doubt in 63.

I bet if it was three dogs or three cats involved, you would have a different view.

Tim,

The Fascist Neopartitionist Propagandist are afraid, that by keeping this subject in the public forum, the second truth might come out, which would destroy their attempts to brainwash their children's minds more than they have already done by making them believe that the GCs and the TCs cannot live together, unless divided. I bet VP's kids minds are as brainwashed as stonewashed denim jeans.!

The 1st truth is of course that the dead bodies were stacked on top of each into the bathtub away from the real crime scene for that "perfect picture", for propaganda purposes ONLY without any respect to the dead or to their remaining families. The 2nd truth that the Fascist Propagandist are worried about is, as to who really killed these people. Was it the EOBA-B or TMT.?? The truth can go either way 50-50 given what they were both capable of doing at the time, which is no different than what the Fascist Partitionist are capable of doing now, as to the reason why they cannot be trusted in any form of settlement, unless it is based on True Federation, True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles. Anything less than the above principle which is adopted and shared by the 27 EU block, will invite further massacres in the future, except this time around, that "perfect picture" will be in colour and also on the YouTube.!

[Tim Drayton]

Lets make the GCs happy these poor children were not killed its just a figment of our imagination, however they are position the crime is hideous and its like claiming the TCs and Turks did not kill any GCs they did it to themselves.

Who is alleging that?

The Gc stance of deviating from the death of these innocent children and sick denial twistedmenatlity of placing the blame on TCs. Do we in turn say that the GCs killed themselves for propaganda purposes?

The point is that the hardline nationalist Turkish Cypriot leadership of the time decided to exploit this particular tragic incident for propaganda purposes. The scene of this crime, as you well know, has been turned into a museum (known as the 'Museum of Barbarism') which a couple of generations of Turkish Cypriot children have been required to visit as part of the school curriculum. As such, this case invites greater scrutiny than it would otherwise merit. There is evidence that the bodies at the crime scene were moved to make a better propaganda picture and this, in my view, casts doubt on the sincerity and true motives of those who did this.

Tim, this scene is barbaric enough with or without dressing. Dressing it in any way does not reduce its ferocity. Judging by the number of pages the GC devote to the history of Cyprus 1960-74, we do not need any lessons from the GCs about our school curriculum.

An excellent point, old fellow, and one that invites the question as to why this Stalinesque technique was employed.

Should we have just let it slip why do you not also question the pictures of soloman at ledra palace crossing each side is as bad as the other but everyone seems to concentrate only on what the TCs and their fight to make themselves heard. The museum is a symbol of GC venom and aggression this should never be forgotten and learned from so that future generations do not expose themselves to the GC mentality that can put them in similar fatal dangers.

According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_c ... s_conflict

In total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964.

Each of these deaths was a tragedy and none of them deserves to be ‘let slip’. However, the point is that the nationalist TC leadership at the time chose to dress up this one particular incident and launch a major propaganda initiative around it. In a sense, they were in the process letting all the other deaths ‘slip’ in comparison. By courting so much publicity for one particular instance of mass murder, they have inevitably also invited much more intense scrutiny of this event.

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

"these children were Turkish children"
This was the point that I dreaded to raise for fear of the repercussions.

So the target of this propaganda, you are saying, was mainland Turkish public opinion and the aim was to get Turkey to intervene. It was necessary to have a really effective photograph that would appear in all the mainland Turkish newspapers and inflame the passions of people there. To this end, a little doctoring was in order. The end justified the means. This all makes sense. Thank you.

[YFred]

Lets make the GCs happy these poor children were not killed its just a figment of our imagination, however they are position the crime is hideous and its like claiming the TCs and Turks did not kill any GCs they did it to themselves.

Who is alleging that?

The Gc stance of deviating from the death of these innocent children and sick denial twistedmenatlity of placing the blame on TCs. Do we in turn say that the GCs killed themselves for propaganda purposes?

The point is that the hardline nationalist Turkish Cypriot leadership of the time decided to exploit this particular tragic incident for propaganda purposes. The scene of this crime, as you well know, has been turned into a museum (known as the 'Museum of Barbarism') which a couple of generations of Turkish Cypriot children have been required to visit as part of the school curriculum. As such, this case invites greater scrutiny than it would otherwise merit. There is evidence that the bodies at the crime scene were moved to make a better propaganda picture and this, in my view, casts doubt on the sincerity and true motives of those who did this.

Tim, this scene is barbaric enough with or without dressing. Dressing it in any way does not reduce its ferocity. Judging by the number of pages the GC devote to the history of Cyprus 1960-74, we do not need any lessons from the GCs about our school curriculum.

An excellent point, old fellow, and one that invites the question as to why this Stalinesque technique was employed.

Should we have just let it slip why do you not also question the pictures of soloman at ledra palace crossing each side is as bad as the other but everyone seems to concentrate only on what the TCs and their fight to make themselves heard. The museum is a symbol of GC venom and aggression this should never be forgotten and learned from so that future generations do not expose themselves to the GC mentality that can put them in similar fatal dangers.

According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_c ... s_conflict

In total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964.

Each of these deaths was a tragedy and none of them deserves to be ‘let slip’. However, the point is that the nationalist TC leadership at the time chose to dress up this one particular incident and launch a major propaganda initiative around it. In a sense, they were in the process letting all the other deaths ‘slip’ in comparison. By courting so much publicity for one particular instance of mass murder, they have inevitably also invited much more intense scrutiny of this event.

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

"these children were Turkish children"
This was the point that I dreaded to raise for fear of the repercussions.

So the target of this propaganda, you are saying, was mainland Turkish public opinion and the aim was to get Turkey to intervene. It was necessary to have a really effective photograph that would appear in all the mainland Turkish newspapers and inflame the passions of people there. To this end, a little doctoring was in order. The end justified the means. This all makes sense. Thank you.

So it was purely a propaganda mission. TCs had no fear of their own survival? Please don't tell me how we felt in 63-64. We were unprepared, untrained and unarmed sitting ducks. I felt that as a 5 year old and remember it clearly. Seeing some old men holding pitchforks and few shotguns to defend against trained and armed NG.

[Tim Drayton]

Lets make the GCs happy these poor children were not killed its just a figment of our imagination, however they are position the crime is hideous and its like claiming the TCs and Turks did not kill any GCs they did it to themselves.

Who is alleging that?

The Gc stance of deviating from the death of these innocent children and sick denial twistedmenatlity of placing the blame on TCs. Do we in turn say that the GCs killed themselves for propaganda purposes?

The point is that the hardline nationalist Turkish Cypriot leadership of the time decided to exploit this particular tragic incident for propaganda purposes. The scene of this crime, as you well know, has been turned into a museum (known as the 'Museum of Barbarism') which a couple of generations of Turkish Cypriot children have been required to visit as part of the school curriculum. As such, this case invites greater scrutiny than it would otherwise merit. There is evidence that the bodies at the crime scene were moved to make a better propaganda picture and this, in my view, casts doubt on the sincerity and true motives of those who did this.

Tim, this scene is barbaric enough with or without dressing. Dressing it in any way does not reduce its ferocity. Judging by the number of pages the GC devote to the history of Cyprus 1960-74, we do not need any lessons from the GCs about our school curriculum.

An excellent point, old fellow, and one that invites the question as to why this Stalinesque technique was employed.

Should we have just let it slip why do you not also question the pictures of soloman at ledra palace crossing each side is as bad as the other but everyone seems to concentrate only on what the TCs and their fight to make themselves heard. The museum is a symbol of GC venom and aggression this should never be forgotten and learned from so that future generations do not expose themselves to the GC mentality that can put them in similar fatal dangers.

According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_c ... s_conflict

In total, some 133 Greek Cypriots and 191 Turkish Cypriots are known to have been killed in 1963 and 1964.

Each of these deaths was a tragedy and none of them deserves to be ‘let slip’. However, the point is that the nationalist TC leadership at the time chose to dress up this one particular incident and launch a major propaganda initiative around it. In a sense, they were in the process letting all the other deaths ‘slip’ in comparison. By courting so much publicity for one particular instance of mass murder, they have inevitably also invited much more intense scrutiny of this event.

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

"these children were Turkish children"
This was the point that I dreaded to raise for fear of the repercussions.

So the target of this propaganda, you are saying, was mainland Turkish public opinion and the aim was to get Turkey to intervene. It was necessary to have a really effective photograph that would appear in all the mainland Turkish newspapers and inflame the passions of people there. To this end, a little doctoring was in order. The end justified the means. This all makes sense. Thank you.

So it was purely a propaganda mission. TCs had no fear of their own survival? Please don't tell me how we felt in 63-64. We were unprepared, untrained and unarmed sitting ducks. I felt that as a 5 year old and remember it clearly. Seeing some old men holding pitchforks and few shotguns to defend against trained and armed NG.

How accurate a portrayal of this period do you feel is given in Martin Packard's new book, 'Getting It Wrong'?

[YFred]

Cannot say as I haven't read it.

[Tim Drayton]

Cannot say as I haven't read it.

I only ask because chapter 58 of this book is devoted to Louroujina in April/May 1964 and the impression that I gain from glancing at this chapter is that the Turkish Cypriots there were a lot better armed and prepared than you say.

You were there and I wasn't, so what else can I add.

[YFred]

Cannot say as I haven't read it.

I only ask because chapter 58 of this book is devoted to Louroujina in April/May 1964 and the impression that I gain from glancing at this chapter is that the Turkish Cypriots there were a lot better armed and prepared than you say.

You were there and I wasn't, so what else can I add.

Can you tell me what it says about how armed and prepared they were then? They use to have a defensive position 100 yards from my house. I seem to remember a foreign (I think he was English) soldier outside my house talking to the volunteers and advising them to move their position to the hills 500 yards away. Which they duly did. That’s how prepared they were.

[Kikapu]

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

"these children were Turkish children"
This was the point that I dreaded to raise for fear of the repercussions.

So the target of this propaganda, you are saying, was mainland Turkish public opinion and the aim was to get Turkey to intervene. It was necessary to have a really effective photograph that would appear in all the mainland Turkish newspapers and inflame the passions of people there. To this end, a little doctoring was in order. The end justified the means. This all makes sense. Thank you.

Well, I had the odds at 50-50 for EOKA-B and TMT as to who may have committed these murders, but reading YFreak's explanation above, it now puts the TMT a nose ahead as being the culprits.!

[YFred]

There is a very simple logical reason for that Tim. The ferocity of the attacks on the TCs were such that their only hope of survival was the intervention by Turkey and these children were Turkish children. A simple true statistic of 103 ethnically cleansed villages in 1963. It was not some Stalinist ideology but survival. Surely you can see that.

"these children were Turkish children"
This was the point that I dreaded to raise for fear of the repercussions.

So the target of this propaganda, you are saying, was mainland Turkish public opinion and the aim was to get Turkey to intervene. It was necessary to have a really effective photograph that would appear in all the mainland Turkish newspapers and inflame the passions of people there. To this end, a little doctoring was in order. The end justified the means. This all makes sense. Thank you.

Well, I had the odds at 50-50 for EOKA-B and TMT as to who may have committed these murders, but reading YFreak's explanation above, it now puts the TMT a nose ahead as being the culprits.!

Does that upset your and your bum chums' theory of Turkish expansionism? There you gays are claiming that Turks were in control all along and the TCs had no say and yet TCs managed to pull Turkey into protecting them and just in time too, judging by the activities of greeks in Bosnia..

Shitface, you are not just an ordinary pratt, you are what is known as squaring the circle prize pratt. That you accuse people with no evidence is just beyond belief. What about the other 200 odd that were killed? Were they killed by the TMT?
I am inclined to believe that DTs relatives got rather careless not just killing women and children but the family of a high ranking Turkish officer. Now, calling it careless just doesn’t do it any justice, it was dammed stupid. And it cost them dearly.