Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

In a nut shell, the north’s electoral picture shows that there are 106,000 settler and 54,000 Turkish Cypriots voters, which amounts to a ratio of nearly 2 to 1 (66%) in favour of the settlers.

Be sure 80% of the 106.000 settler voter r Cyprus born or came Cyprus when they were 1 to 12 y.o. So, they r TCs actually. No?

NO.!!

Being born in Cyprus does not make them a TC or a GC automatically, unless atleast one of their parents is a TC or a GC. Coming to Cyprus at any age illegally will remain as such, an Illegal Alien. Show me a country that does what you have suggested.

Perhaps Turkey.......................not.!

Listen here old thick shit. Show me a country that does not give automatic citizenship to anybody who is born there other than Germany.

Fred, there are two conflicting principles used to determine nationality. These are ius sanguinis (rights by bloodline/paternal descent in the Civil Code) and ius solis (rights by birth/residence on national territory). Most countries in the world apply a mixture of both principles, but tend to favour one over the other. There are many countries in the world that give precedence to the principle of ius sanguinis . According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Apart from France, jus sanguinis still is the preferred means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries, with benefits of maintaining culture and national identity as well as ethnic homogeneity. This has been criticised by some on the grounds that, if it is the only means, and were a group of immigrants to intra-marry, it could lead to generations of people living their whole lives in the state without being citizens of it - according to Agamben, thus likening their status to an homo sacer, deprived of any civil rights.

A point that is often missed, I feel, is that the principles for determining who is to be a citizen of the Republic of Cyprus were laid down in Annex D to the 1960 Treaty of Establishment, and the principle is basically that of ius sanguinis in the male line. The government of the RoC may, in fact, have no latitude in this matter given that it was fixed in the 1960 Treaty.

Tim,

Here is a link which shows what are the legal rules in each country on citizenships.

“Citizenship Laws of the World”

This is a extensive and well produced survey of world citizenship laws which was produced by Office of Personnel Management of the US government in 2000/2001, as a resource for dealing with multiple citizenship issues.

The directory provides a synopsis of the citizenship laws for 206 countries. It contains a wealth of information about multiple citizenship and the various ways that different countries approach it. The laws and rules of each country are individually summarized.

The directory provides an simplified overview, not a detailed legal analysis. It is a quick reference document focussed on some of the mechanics of citizenship, but it does not provide a complete picture of any of the countries listed, including the US itself. Keep in mind that citizenship laws, rules and interpretations are constantly changing, so some entries could be out of date. It is apparently not unusual to encounter differences between stated and actual practice in implementation of a country's citizenship laws.

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/worldsummary.html

CYPRUS


CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship is based upon the Republic Law of 1967. The legal basis for citizenship is divided between those born before and those born after August 16, 1960, the date of independence. All questions regarding Turkish Cyprus should be directed to the Cypriot Embassy.

(UKC-Commonwealth Nation)

BY BIRTH: All citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies who were born in Cyprus between November 5, 1914, and August 16, 1960, and who were resident in Cyprus during the five years preceding independence (August 16, 1960).

BY DESCENT: Person born in wedlock, after August 16, 1960, whose father is a citizen of Cyprus, regardless of the country of birth. In the event the father is unknown or stateless, Cypriot citizenship may be passed on by the mother.

BY NATURALIZATION: No information was provided.


DUAL CITIZENSHIP: RECOGNIZED.


LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of Cypriot citizenship is permitted by law. Contact the Embassy for details and required paperwork. The following are not allowed to renounce citizenship: Persons who have not fulfilled their military requirements. Persons who are under sentence for criminal activities.

INVOLUNTARY: The following reflect grounds for involuntary loss of naturalized Cypriot citizenship: Citizenship was gained under fraud or false statements. Person commits acts of disloyalty to the government of Cyprus. Person, within five years of being naturalized, begins to live continually abroad without registering with the Cypriot Consul.

[TURKISH CYPRUS: According to the Cypriot Consul: "An exceptional situation was created in the part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus which has remained outside the control of the Government of Cyprus since the invasion of Cyprus by Turkish troops in the summer of 1974. The Republic of Cyprus continues to recognize the citizenship and right to citizenship of all Turkish Cypriots and Cyprus Republic passports are issued to any persons who can provide proper documentation. However, the Republic of Cyprus does not consider those alien persons who have settled illegally and without its permission in the areas under control of the Turkish forces as legitimate claimants to Cypriot citizenship."]

GREECE


CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based upon the Code of Greek Citizenship, amended in 1968 and 1984.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Greece does not automatically confer citizenship. The only exceptions are abandoned children or children of stateless parents.

BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, of a Greek father, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, of a Greek mother and an unknown or stateless father, regardless of the child's country of birth.

BY NATURALIZATION: No information provided.

TURKEY

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based upon Article 66 of the Turkish Constitution and regulated in Law 403 of the Turkish Citizenship Law of 1964.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Turkey does not automatically confer citizenship. Exception: A child born to unknown or stateless parents.

BY DESCENT: Child, at least one of whose parents is a citizen of Turkey, regardless of the child's country of birth.

MARRIAGE: A foreign woman who marries a citizen of Turkey may acquire Turkish citizenship upon making a declaration of intent.

BY NATURALIZATION: Turkish citizenship may be acquired upon fulfillment of the following conditions: Person has resided in Turkey for at least five years. Person has shown intent to remain in Turkey. Person is familiar with the Turkish language. Person has sufficient means for self-support. Person has no illness considered threatening to public health.

The following persons may be eligible for citizenship without fulfilling the residency requirement: Persons of Turkish descent, their spouses, and minor children. The child of a person who, regardless of circumstances, has lost citizenship. Spouse of a Turkish citizen and the spouse's minor children.

[Tim Drayton]

"Show me a country that does not give automatic citizenship to anybody who is born there other than Germany. "

Great Britain is one. There are many more. Do some research and you will be surprised.

Does Turkey allow citizenship to the children of Greeks from Istanbul who are born overseas?

Cyprus always had the requirement of one parent being a Cypriot, minimum residence for spouses and so on. The mere fact of being born in Cyprus does not grant nationality.

Does Turkey allow foreigners to claim nationality by mere residence? With no further proof of connection to the country?

A new Turkish nationality law was passed about 3 months ago. The basic principle is that children born within wedlock to a mother who is a Turkish citizen or a father who is a Turkish citizen (or both) automatically qualify for Turkish Citizenship regardless of where they are born, as do children born out of wedlock to a mother who is a Turkish citizen.
Children born to foreign parents on Turkish soil only automatically qualify for Turkish citizenship if on birth they do not automatically qualify for citizenship of any other state.

(Another one for YFred’s list of ius sanguinis countries!)

There is a procedure enabling foreigners who have resided in Turkey for a continuous period of five years to apply for citizenship by naturalisation. There are various conditions such as having no criminal record, being in good health, having the means to support oneself and passing a Turkish language test (which I have heard is not very strenuous). I personally know of two or three people who have successfully applied so it can be done.

[Tim Drayton]

In a nut shell, the north’s electoral picture shows that there are 106,000 settler and 54,000 Turkish Cypriots voters, which amounts to a ratio of nearly 2 to 1 (66%) in favour of the settlers.

Be sure 80% of the 106.000 settler voter r Cyprus born or came Cyprus when they were 1 to 12 y.o. So, they r TCs actually. No?

NO.!!

Being born in Cyprus does not make them a TC or a GC automatically, unless atleast one of their parents is a TC or a GC. Coming to Cyprus at any age illegally will remain as such, an Illegal Alien. Show me a country that does what you have suggested.

Perhaps Turkey.......................not.!

Listen here old thick shit. Show me a country that does not give automatic citizenship to anybody who is born there other than Germany.

Fred, there are two conflicting principles used to determine nationality. These are ius sanguinis (rights by bloodline/paternal descent in the Civil Code) and ius solis (rights by birth/residence on national territory). Most countries in the world apply a mixture of both principles, but tend to favour one over the other. There are many countries in the world that give precedence to the principle of ius sanguinis . According to a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Apart from France, jus sanguinis still is the preferred means of passing on citizenship in many continental European countries, with benefits of maintaining culture and national identity as well as ethnic homogeneity. This has been criticised by some on the grounds that, if it is the only means, and were a group of immigrants to intra-marry, it could lead to generations of people living their whole lives in the state without being citizens of it - according to Agamben, thus likening their status to an homo sacer, deprived of any civil rights.

A point that is often missed, I feel, is that the principles for determining who is to be a citizen of the Republic of Cyprus were laid down in Annex D to the 1960 Treaty of Establishment, and the principle is basically that of ius sanguinis in the male line. The government of the RoC may, in fact, have no latitude in this matter given that it was fixed in the 1960 Treaty.

Tim,

Here is a link which shows what are the legal rules in each country on citizenships.

“Citizenship Laws of the World”

This is a extensive and well produced survey of world citizenship laws which was produced by Office of Personnel Management of the US government in 2000/2001, as a resource for dealing with multiple citizenship issues.

The directory provides a synopsis of the citizenship laws for 206 countries. It contains a wealth of information about multiple citizenship and the various ways that different countries approach it. The laws and rules of each country are individually summarized.

The directory provides an simplified overview, not a detailed legal analysis. It is a quick reference document focussed on some of the mechanics of citizenship, but it does not provide a complete picture of any of the countries listed, including the US itself. Keep in mind that citizenship laws, rules and interpretations are constantly changing, so some entries could be out of date. It is apparently not unusual to encounter differences between stated and actual practice in implementation of a country's citizenship laws.

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/worldsummary.html

CYPRUS


CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship is based upon the Republic Law of 1967. The legal basis for citizenship is divided between those born before and those born after August 16, 1960, the date of independence. All questions regarding Turkish Cyprus should be directed to the Cypriot Embassy.

(UKC-Commonwealth Nation)

BY BIRTH: All citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies who were born in Cyprus between November 5, 1914, and August 16, 1960, and who were resident in Cyprus during the five years preceding independence (August 16, 1960).

BY DESCENT: Person born in wedlock, after August 16, 1960, whose father is a citizen of Cyprus, regardless of the country of birth. In the event the father is unknown or stateless, Cypriot citizenship may be passed on by the mother.

BY NATURALIZATION: No information was provided.


DUAL CITIZENSHIP: RECOGNIZED.


LOSS OF CITIZENSHIP:

VOLUNTARY: Voluntary renunciation of Cypriot citizenship is permitted by law. Contact the Embassy for details and required paperwork. The following are not allowed to renounce citizenship: Persons who have not fulfilled their military requirements. Persons who are under sentence for criminal activities.

INVOLUNTARY: The following reflect grounds for involuntary loss of naturalized Cypriot citizenship: Citizenship was gained under fraud or false statements. Person commits acts of disloyalty to the government of Cyprus. Person, within five years of being naturalized, begins to live continually abroad without registering with the Cypriot Consul.

[TURKISH CYPRUS: According to the Cypriot Consul: "An exceptional situation was created in the part of the territory of the Republic of Cyprus which has remained outside the control of the Government of Cyprus since the invasion of Cyprus by Turkish troops in the summer of 1974. The Republic of Cyprus continues to recognize the citizenship and right to citizenship of all Turkish Cypriots and Cyprus Republic passports are issued to any persons who can provide proper documentation. However, the Republic of Cyprus does not consider those alien persons who have settled illegally and without its permission in the areas under control of the Turkish forces as legitimate claimants to Cypriot citizenship."]

GREECE


CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based upon the Code of Greek Citizenship, amended in 1968 and 1984.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Greece does not automatically confer citizenship. The only exceptions are abandoned children or children of stateless parents.

BY DESCENT: Child born in wedlock, of a Greek father, regardless of the child's country of birth. Child born out of wedlock, of a Greek mother and an unknown or stateless father, regardless of the child's country of birth.

BY NATURALIZATION: No information provided.

TURKEY

CITIZENSHIP: Citizenship laws are based upon Article 66 of the Turkish Constitution and regulated in Law 403 of the Turkish Citizenship Law of 1964.

BY BIRTH: Birth within the territory of Turkey does not automatically confer citizenship. Exception: A child born to unknown or stateless parents.

BY DESCENT: Child, at least one of whose parents is a citizen of Turkey, regardless of the child's country of birth.

MARRIAGE: A foreign woman who marries a citizen of Turkey may acquire Turkish citizenship upon making a declaration of intent.

BY NATURALIZATION: Turkish citizenship may be acquired upon fulfillment of the following conditions: Person has resided in Turkey for at least five years. Person has shown intent to remain in Turkey. Person is familiar with the Turkish language. Person has sufficient means for self-support. Person has no illness considered threatening to public health.

The following persons may be eligible for citizenship without fulfilling the residency requirement: Persons of Turkish descent, their spouses, and minor children. The child of a person who, regardless of circumstances, has lost citizenship. Spouse of a Turkish citizen and the spouse's minor children.

Thanks for the information, Kikapu.

On a technical point, the information about Turkey is now out of date. A new citizenship law (number 5901) came into force on 29/5/2009

http://www.muhasebenet.net/kanun_5901_t ... anunu.html

and the old citizenship law (number 403) was abrogated at the same time.

By the way, I wonder what YFred, that great champion of ius solis, has to say about the TRNC citizenship law, which grants automatic citizenship only to those born of a Turkish Cypriot father or a Turkish Cypriot mother!

[Kikapu]

Thanks for the information, Kikapu.

On a technical point, the information about Turkey is now out of date. A new citizenship law (number 5901) came into force on 29/5/2009

http://www.muhasebenet.net/kanun_5901_t ... anunu.html

and the old citizenship law (number 403) was abrogated at the same time.

By the way, I wonder what YFred, that great champion of ius solis, has to say about the TRNC citizenship law, which grants automatic citizenship only to those born of a Turkish Cypriot father or a Turkish Cypriot mother!

Thanks for the update on Turkey's new rules, Tim.

For some reason, and for the life of me, I cannot figure out as to WHY NOT, that the "trnc" is not listed as part of the 206 nation study on citizenships by the Office of Personnel Management of the US government in 2000/2001.!

Perhaps YFreak knows the answer.!

[Nikitas]

Now we can await YFred's weighty opinion on the tactics of giving settlers who have no tangible or intangible connection to Cyprus citizenship.

And while he is at it maybe he cvan give us a decent justification why settlers are entitled to become stakeholders in Cyprus when expatriate TCs are not. There is something bent in this business, the surprising thing is how people do not see it.

[YFred]

Tim, I am surprised at you. What has Automatic qualification got to do with what is being discussed. In fact this law is used and abused by both sides of Cyprus and Turkey and probably Greece as well to force people who were not born in their country do the military service. It is also used by the receiving country to get out of their obligation to help these people in a legal situation if they should be held in the country of their ancestry. To put in Kickashit terms so he can also understand what is being discussed, one is holding while the other one is raping. It seems that True democracy and True human rights does not reach the top branch for some extreme members of the forum. What is really worrying is that you agree with them.

What matters is having lived in a country for a specified period; we can become the citizen of that country whether we are born there or not. And of course they will all jump up and down running around like headless chickens shouting TRNC is not a country and all that. Sooner or later you will wake up to the realities, but by then it will be all over, and you will get bugger all back.

All I will say is when you come across somebody who has lived there for 2 or 3 generations try and remove them and you will see what you get. If TRNC has given citizenship to these people, and if RoC is genuine about peace, in DT’s words “they will have to take it like a man”. Without it there will be no peace.

How much tangibility is adequate for somebody to claim citizenship of a country? I did it in 5 years in UK. Get real or the Peace Train is leaving. You’ve got till December to be on it or miss it for the last time.
Back to square one. Any one for tavla?

[Tim Drayton]

Tim, I am surprised at you. What has Automatic qualification got to do with what is being discussed. In fact this law is used and abused by both sides of Cyprus and Turkey and probably Greece as well to force people who were not born in their country do the military service. It is also used by the receiving country to get out of their obligation to help these people in a legal situation if they should be held in the country of their ancestry. To put in Kickashit terms so he can also understand what is being discussed, one is holding while the other one is raping. It seems that True democracy and True human rights does not reach the top branch for some extreme members of the forum. What is really worrying is that you agree with them.

What matters is having lived in a country for a specified period; we can become the citizen of that country whether we are born there or not. And of course they will all jump up and down running around like headless chickens shouting TRNC is not a country and all that. Sooner or later you will wake up to the realities, but by then it will be all over, and you will get bugger all back.

All I will say is when you come across somebody who has lived there for 2 or 3 generations try and remove them and you will see what you get. If TRNC has given citizenship to these people, and if RoC is genuine about peace, in DT’s words “they will have to take it like a man”. Without it there will be no peace.

How much tangibility is adequate for somebody to claim citizenship of a country? I did it in 5 years in UK. Get real or the Peace Train is leaving. You’ve got till December to be on it or miss it for the last time.
Back to square one. Any one for tavla?

I am afraid you really have lost me this time, old boy. Can you precis the point you wish me to address?

[YFred]

What has automatic qualification got to do with anything? Non automatic qualification excludes nobody. Discuss.

[Tim Drayton]

What has automatic qualification got to do with anything? Non automatic qualification excludes nobody. Discuss.

A hypothetical example.

X is born in Turkey. His father is Nigerian and his mother is British. He qualifies for Nigerian and British citizenship by birth, so does not automatically qualify for Turkish citizenship pursuant to paragraph 1 of Article 8 of Law number 5901 (quoted in the original for the benefit of YFred)

MADDE 8 – (1) Türkiye'de doğan ve yabancı ana ve babasından dolayı doğumla herhangi bir ülkenin vatandaşlığını kazanamayan çocuk, doğumdan itibaren Türk vatandaşıdır.

X grows up in Turkey. One day in his youth he is minding his own business and wandering the streets of Istanbul when he is set upon by Runaway and a group of his fascist mates because he has dark skin. He defends himself, and when the police arrive, who happen to be members of the semi-fascist MHP, they take Runaway's word as a good Turkish Muslim that this dark-skinned gavur attacked them without provocation. X is convicted of assault.

X, having lived all his life in Turkey and well in excess of the five years' residence required to apply for citizenship by naturalisation, applies for citizenship of the Republic of Turkey. His application is denied because he has a criminal record.

[runaway]

X grows up in Turkey. One day in his youth he is minding his own business and wandering the streets of Istanbul when he is set upon by Runaway and a group of his fascist mates because he has dark skin. .

I love dark skinned people. (Muslim,Christian,Jewish,atheist etc) Don't you dare comparing them with TC killer south cypriots.