Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Alexis you are very optimistic, if their is not a global property exchange mechanism for everyone to adhere to you cannot allow individuals to go and negotiate for their peoprties back it would be mayhem and very dangerous.

If we expect that this will result in bloodshed then it looks like we have not learnt anything from the past

do you really truely believe we have??? I persoanlly have my doubts but am open to being proven wrong.

[Dhavlos]

well, look at it like this maybe.

SInce opening of borders, to my knowledge, people have gone back to their houses to find other people their....there have not been murders or violence (at least en masse anyway).

however, for people to meet and have to exchange, i agree is quite dangerous.

it would be better if property exchanges were mediated by a third party.

[Viewpoint]

Dhavlos now its all find and friendly and we eat drink and be merry but if Yannis demands that Ahmet vacates his old home Im sure the situation would be very explosive. So there should be an overall agreement on how property will revert to previous owners.

[Main_Source]

First of all: The right for self determination is a basic human right and not at all restricted by anything

Self determination on the back of ethnic cleansing is a human right? Lets see what the ECHR have to say about this.

Secondly: The TC are not a minority in Cyprus, they have been and still are the equal partners of the GC. It was the GC who started to kill them and to try to get them out of Cyprus

TC are a minority in numbers yes but should have the same rights as any GC has. May I add...it was TC who joined the British police force and they already knew that we were at odds with them. Besides, TC did their fair share of killing GC during the 50's.

Third: It's very funny to read your continous lamentation and complaints about the current situation on the island. You should remember that it has been the GC with the famous Makarios on top and Grivas with his gunmen like your actual president who destroyed the RoC. Creating these troubles including your internal civil war you got it like a silly boy on the backside. That's all.

Makarios and Grivas were actually at odds. You havenet mentioned how TMT did as much to segragate the community as EOKA B...or the fact that Dr Kucuk had plans for separation back in the 1950's...before the time when most TC see the troubles as starting. As for the rest of your comment...shows typical nationalistic Turkish arrogance..as well as how unintelligent you are.

Fourth: My recommendation to you: Don't make anymore troubles on the island, be calm and friendly south of the Green Line because history is showing us that you are always the loosers by following your daydreams!

You brought the trouble to us from the depths of Anatolia, you brought the trouble to us by keeping us under your opression for hundreds of years and you still brought the trouble to us by some of your people joining the British who were ruling us when we wanted to have the choice who should rule us. Besides, most of the 200,000 GC refugees had nothing to do with any violance towards TC. As for your last comment, more stupid Turkish arrogance once again.

[Dhavlos]

Dhavlos now its all find and friendly and we eat drink and be merry but if Yannis demands that Ahmet vacates his old home Im sure the situation would be very explosive. So there should be an overall agreement on how property will revert to previous owners.

i agree, that what i meant. Now everyones ok, but when a solution kicks in and people have to move, then you will find problems.

[Murtaza]

ms

do you think that this never happened under greek authorites.

the spartans sent their kids into the mountains and told them not to come down for years.

Alexander the great massacred his own people in persia. And he didnt tax anyone cos mostly he simply kiled and looted then burnt to the ground all that he conquered. Who told you greeks never played these games, in fact as the first european culture, they invented them.

Welcome to 2005, if you still live in ancient times, we will never get anywhere.

I never said the Greeks were angels. Im not blindly in awe of Alexander the Great and know he did many many bad things. I also know that the Spartans were very brutal in their ways....but I was answering Murtaza's comment.

and anyway Murtaza, how did I show you that you were right?...and right about what?

This is just what you know about ottomans? I said, Greeks dont like ottomans, They think that empire as devil. And You just showed me I am right.

One day you should realy realy accept, ottoman empire is not worst empire of world.

[Murtaza]

Do you think that the world did not recognise "trnc" because they love the GCs? No my friend, it is because by doing so there will be [b] a precedent that will split their own countries into 100 pieces.Every minority in every country will declare independence and ask for recognition.Even Azerbaijan will lose it's Nakorno-Karabah region.The blacks in the USA will declare 4-5 states theirs.The Hispanics the same.Scotland the same.... There will be no end to that.The Countries of the world will increase from 120 to 1200 in just 10 years!!!
So yes, beleive me if they want to recognise "trnc" I say go ahead do it.[/b]


Well, Infact this is not a realistic approach to world, Why do you think, supporting other minority will harm our country?

Look USA, They support Kurds, Look Russia they supported Serbs at bosnia, Look Greece They supported Kurds, Look Turkey they are supporting Turks at Iraq. (All country I said have some minority in Itself)

In Reality, minority problem is just related with force, nothing more. Why do you think accepting TRNC will change all of this? Countries support other minorities and still want to hold their minorities.


I agree with you. In fact Greece is too different from the rest of the Europeans. I beleive they want to be friends with Turkey, because hey, if Turkey advances Greece will be the first country to benefit. However there is a problem internally in Turkey I mean the nationalists and the Army leaders want to keep Cyprus for their "prestige". Unless Turkey puts the Army under the orders of the Political leadership solving the Cyprus problem will be very difficult.


Yes, they are diffent because They somehow afraid from a war between Turkey and greece, A german and brit have no reason for afraid of war. And be sure Greeks are also as nationalist as Turks.


Hmm I agree partially with you.Yes EU is not a military power yet.However if you notice they actually fund the Americans to do the Military job for them and keep the "world order".The Americans have a huge external debt.Where do the own money?To Japan? No. To China? No. They owe it all to Europe!That's why the Americans want Turkey to be in Europe.Because otherwise Turkey will not be able to pay them and they will not be able to pay back their own debt to Europe!

If I am not wrong, most of the debts of USA is to their citizen. They are inside-debts. And another think, EU is also not a political force, USA is destroying their unity, and lets say Brits dont bind themself to EU.
And also EU lost Its initiative, They are mostly pasifict agains to problems. So I dont saw any militarist thread from EU. If There is a problem dont related with them directly, Mostly They will talk each other a year, than problem would be already choosen. And No my friend, Cyprus is not a directly related problem with them.



About Nakorno Karabah this region is similar to "trnc" in Cyprus correct? They ask for recognition. So if Azerbaijan recognises "trnc" it will lose Nakorno Karabah. (I am not very well aware of this issue anyway-I might be wrong on that). If I am correct then what is your comment on that?

It can be same or not, Point is power, International politics are not related with fairness. If Azerbaijan have enough power, she will take Karabah back. Infact That is also one of your mistake. You think, that is fair, lets give our rights back or something like that. This is not a good way to take your right backs. You have just two alternatives, first force to Turkey and TC, second convince to Turkey and TC.

Forcing is not a good solition for both.

If you force TC, they would resist more to GC, because They afraid from you. If you force to Turkey, Well lets say you have not much chance to force her enough.

So you should try second way,

If you can convice TC, all is done. If Turkey resist GC wish, She will be kicked out of Cyprus.

You should firstly forget to this word,"fairness".
Why do you think, world is a place for fairness?
If you realy believe Greeks can overpower Turkey, Than try it. I now I am looking a little harsh, but this is the way of our world.


May I ask a personal question: Nerede oturuyorsun?

At most beatiful city of Turkey, Istanbul.You call it Consantinapolis.

By the way, I write a little much. Sorry for it.

[Main_Source]

This is just what you know about ottomans? I said, Greeks dont like ottomans, They think that empire as devil. And You just showed me I am right.

One day you should realy realy accept, ottoman empire is not worst empire of world.

No, what you said was Greeks dont like Turks. Well in that respect, I would say it is only the ignorant people who dont like someone because of their race...and every country has ignorant people. Over the past 10 years, I have read and heard of many good will gestures between Greeks and Turks in such things as sports and arts. To say that all Greeks hate all Turks or vice versa, is a very broad statement.

On the otherhand, if many Turks have political beliefs which do bad on Greek people, then there would be an eventual outcome.

Anyway, I was told by another Turk here that Turks are only a small part of the Ottoman people...so what you have just said (Ottomans = Turks) makes me confused again. Besides, I know of some Ottoman rulers who did some good will gestures to Greeks...but that number is very small compared to the ones who treated the Greeks badly.

[Murtaza]

No, what you said was Greeks dont like Turks. Well in that respect, I would say it is only the ignorant people who dont like someone because of their race...and every country has ignorant people. Over the past 10 years, I have read and heard of many good will gestures between Greeks and Turks in such things as sports and arts. To say that all Greeks hate all Turks or vice versa, is a very broad statement.


Main Source, you can like from next Turk, but also you can have a dislike Turks as people and culture , This is not a personal thing, I can love and marry with a greek, but I can have dislike Greeks as people and culture. And noone said All Turks or Greeks hate from each other.

On the otherhand, if many Turks have political beliefs which do bad on Greek people, then there would be an eventual outcome.

This is complately topic of another discussion.

Anyway, I was told by another Turk here that Turks are only a small part of the Ottoman people...so what you have just said (Ottomans = Turks) makes me confused again. Besides, I know of some Ottoman rulers who did some good will gestures to Greeks...but that number is very small compared to the ones who treated the Greeks badly.

It is related to with Turks you speak, Some even hate from Ottomans, because they accept It also forced Turks.

Do you think ottomans are worst empire?

[Main_Source]

worst for Greeks, yes...infact, not only Greeks but most Christians in the middle east and north Africa.