Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

This week the UK and Scottish governments agreed the release, on compassionate grounds, of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi, the one man convicted of the murder of 270 people as a result of the bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie in 1988, on the basis that he is in the latter stages of terminal prostate cancer. This man has now returned to Libya to a hero's welcome.

Was the decision to release correct or just plain wrong?

I believe this was the correct decision as the man should be given the opportunity to say Good bye to his relatives and friends.

I find the UK and Scottish decision to be compassionate, and the guy has already spent over 21 years in jail already, and probably only has a few weeks or days to live...

I also happen to doubt the man's guilt, as he could have been scape goat, but do not know enough to make comment on that. But even if he is guilty, then I believe it is still right to release him on compassionate grounds, considering his personal circumstances.

Actually the two Libyans, including Megrahi, thought to be involved were handed over to authorities in The Hague in 1999. Megrahi was convicted and sentenced in 2001. So he's only served 8 years (for 270 murders!).

Although, as I said previously, there seems some doubt about his conviction, on the general point about compassionate early release of prisoners I have to say that I'm not in favour. When someone is found guilty they should serve the sentence, no matter their subsequent health. I definitely don't agree with the decision to release Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber. He chose to escape and avoid his sentence, then when he needed healthcare returned to the UK and back to prison. He should have completed his sentence even if that meant he died behind bars.

I don't find your stance on this at all unreasonable.

All I know is that the conviction was controversial and so there must be some grounds for doubt. Perhaps the authorities can have some kind of inquiry into the matter? Is this possible, or does his release on "compassionate" grounds prevent this?

One of Jim Swire's complaints (see link I provided earlier) is that there has never been a public enquiry into the bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103. I doubt it will ever happen although I have no idea if this is tied into the decision to release.

I like Robert Fisk's writing about the political situation in the Middle East - he has a spiky article in The Independent today in which he gives his thoughts on where the blame lies.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 75813.html

Thanks for the article.

Robert Fisk's thoughts are very interesting and certainly quite feasible which is why an inquiry into the bombing of Pan-Am 103 might be a good idea.

There may indeed have been a Palestinian connection and Iranian involvement, but certain imbeciles on this forum will question Robert Fisk's sanity, because to them, Iran is a model nation that should be looked up to...

Can I ask you what your stance is on capital punishment? Personally, I am against it for 3 reasons. The main reason is that I don't believe the state should have the right to take a person's life. Also, execution methods are inhumane, and many innocent people have been executed in the past.

I believe in the right of life as a fundamental human right, and find it abhorrent if any state condemns a man to death.

Talisker wrote:

We're in agreement about capital punishment. I had an exchange with Cyprusgrump and Lioness 2 last weekend on this very topic.
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=20

I'm upset about missing that thread. It is one of the more interesting topics to be posted here in some time.

I have read your view on capital punishment and I agree with everything you said.

[yialousa1971]

It was probably a Mossad job like the shooting of PC Yvonne Fletcher.

[CBBB]

It was probably a Mossad job like the shooting of PC Yvonne Fletcher.

What were the Mossad doing inside the Libyan Embassy?

[Paphitis]

This week the UK and Scottish governments agreed the release, on compassionate grounds, of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi, the one man convicted of the murder of 270 people as a result of the bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie in 1988, on the basis that he is in the latter stages of terminal prostate cancer. This man has now returned to Libya to a hero's welcome.

Was the decision to release correct or just plain wrong?

I believe this was the correct decision as the man should be given the opportunity to say Good bye to his relatives and friends.

I find the UK and Scottish decision to be compassionate, and the guy has already spent over 21 years in jail already, and probably only has a few weeks or days to live...

I also happen to doubt the man's guilt, as he could have been scape goat, but do not know enough to make comment on that. But even if he is guilty, then I believe it is still right to release him on compassionate grounds, considering his personal circumstances.

Actually the two Libyans, including Megrahi, thought to be involved were handed over to authorities in The Hague in 1999. Megrahi was convicted and sentenced in 2001. So he's only served 8 years (for 270 murders!).

Although, as I said previously, there seems some doubt about his conviction, on the general point about compassionate early release of prisoners I have to say that I'm not in favour. When someone is found guilty they should serve the sentence, no matter their subsequent health. I definitely don't agree with the decision to release Ronnie Biggs, the Great Train Robber. He chose to escape and avoid his sentence, then when he needed healthcare returned to the UK and back to prison. He should have completed his sentence even if that meant he died behind bars.

I don't find your stance on this at all unreasonable.

All I know is that the conviction was controversial and so there must be some grounds for doubt. Perhaps the authorities can have some kind of inquiry into the matter? Is this possible, or does his release on "compassionate" grounds prevent this?

Can I ask you what your stance is on capital punishment? Personally, I am against it for 3 reasons. The main reason is that I don't believe the state should have the right to take a person's life. Also, execution methods are inhumane, and many innocent people have been executed in the past.

I believe in the right of life as a fundamental human right, and find it abhorrent if any state condemns a man to death.

Y-Fred wrote:

You are such an arse.

I think you are an arse for making unfounded sweeping statements without a shred of evidence.

Y-Fred wrote:

The evidence for his innocence is being held by the Brits under the OSA. They were about to present the evidence to the court for his appeal when the brits and the yanks offered him to be released if he drops his appeal, which he did.

Well then, his attorney would have to be the biggest idiot that ever practiced law...

Do you have any link supporting your hearsay and conspiracy theories?

Y-Fred wrote:

Bulshit is bulshit and it smells the same every time. If there was any doubt which there was plenty of as it was all circumstantial evidence, this man should never have been convicted.

This is what you say, but I'm in no position to make any judgment as to the man's guilt or innocence.

Y-Fred wrote:

You seem to apply criminal law in the same maner as the Int Law. If the accused is Muslim? Guilty.

Well, there you go again.

I never made any comment about the man's guilt or innocence. I don't believe I am qualified to pass this judgment.

Y-Fred wrote:

What ever happend to the American Captain for shooting down a civilian Iranian plane.?
Or was it that there was no evidence that he did it?

Only an idiot would ever compare the accidental shooting down of Iran Air Flight 655 with the deliberate terrorist bombing of Pan-Am Flight 103.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[yialousa1971]

It was probably a Mossad job like the shooting of PC Yvonne Fletcher.

What were the Mossad doing inside the Libyan Embassy?

Immediately, a number of inconsistencies were evident. Foremost was the original findings of Pathologist, Dr. Ian West, who wrote in his autopsy report: “…the angle of the bullet wound track indicates that she [WPC Fletcher] was shot in the back by a person situated at a considerably higher level… the track would indicate that she had been shot from the upper floors of an adjacent building [to the Libyan People’s Bureau].” Dr West noted that the bullets entry track was consistent with an angle of 60-70 degrees. During later evidence given at the inquest, West changed his mind. Now he agreed with Police investigators that the bullet had come from the first floor of the Libyan people’s Bureau - signifying an entry wound of only 15 degrees. This unusual change in heart was to prove vital.

Reviewing the evidence, Prof. Knight found Dr. West’s amendments strange. “I can’t understand it,” he said. Hugh Thomas, former Chief Consultant to the British Army in Northern Ireland - and an acknowledged expert on gunshot wounds - concluded that Dr. West’s testimony at the inquest was “rubbish.” Adding that it was “facile” and a “nonsense,” he concluded that the updated scenario West painted for the Coroner was “impossible.” Backtracking over the Post Mortem report, Thomas was convinced that the bullet that struck WPC Fletcher must’ve come from the upper floors of an adjacent building. Totalling five floors, the Libyan building simply didn’t have a high enough elevation for the killer shot.

Forensic examination also showed the bullet’s “energy” was depleted and the round was “tumbling” as it hit the police officer. The tumbling effect and the “terminal velocity” are consistent with the use of silencers. Significantly, these effects are even more pronounced following the removal of part of the bullet’s propellant, creating a “low velocity” and, equally importantly, a less audible discharge. The latter is a known technique of British SAS snipers. The damage caused by a bullet doctored in this way is horrific. The “tumbling” bullet tears through the body, ripping tissue and vital organs beyond repair. Whoever shot Yvonne Fletcher was aware it was a death shot in every sense.

Remember the King David Hotel bombing?

In 1946, Jewish terrorists dressed as Arabs blew up the King David hotel in Palestine, killing 91 and injuring 45. This false-flag style, in which stage-managed attacks are blamed on an innocent third party for political ends, was to be a cornerstone of Israeli state terrorism and frequently employed over the following decades including the 21st century. It did not always succeed - particularly in the Forties, Fifties and Sixties - in which case Jews ended up having to admit responsibility.

[CBBB]

Links to these quotes please.

[yialousa1971]

Links to these quotes please.

http://www.answers.com/topic/king-david-hotel-bombing

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/318411/King-David-Hotel

Don't tell me you thought the Arabs blew up the King David Hotel?

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/terminal_velocity.htm

[Talisker]

I thought there might be a backlash.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8216122.stm

[Milo]

In full: Statement from Megrahi

After leaving HM Prison Greenock after being released on compassionate grounds, Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi released the following statement:

I am obviously very relieved to be leaving my prison cell at last and returning to Libya, my homeland.

I would like to first of all take the opportunity to extend my gratitude to the many people of Scotland, and elsewhere, who have sent me their good wishes.

I bear no ill will to the people of Scotland; indeed, it is one of my regrets that I have been unable to experience any meaningful aspect of Scottish life, or to see your country.

To the staff in HM Prison Greenock, and before that at HM Prison Barlinnie, I wish to express thanks for the kindness that they were able to show me.

For those who assisted in my medical and nursing care; who tried to make my time here as comfortable as possible, I am of course grateful.

My legal team has worked tirelessly on my behalf; I wish to thank Advocates Margaret Scott QC, Jamie Gilchrist QC, Shelagh McCall and Martin Richardson together with the team at Taylor & Kelly, for all of their gallant efforts in my bid to clear my name.

I know they share, in no small measure, my disappointment about the abandonment of my appeal.

Many people, including the relatives of those who died in, and over, Lockerbie, are, I know, upset that my appeal has come to an end; that nothing more can be done about the circumstances surrounding the Lockerbie bombing.

I share their frustration. I had most to gain and nothing to lose about the whole truth coming out - until my diagnosis of cancer.

To those victims' relatives who can bear to hear me say this: they continue to have my sincere sympathy for the unimaginable loss that they have suffered.

To those who bear me ill will, I do not return that to you.

And, lastly, I must turn to my conviction and imprisonment.

To be incarcerated in a far off land, completely alien to my way of life and culture has been not only been a shock but also a most profound dislocation for me personally and for my whole family.

I have had many burdens to overcome during my incarceration.

I had to sit through a trial which I had been persuaded to attend on the basis that it would have been scrupulously fair.

In my second, most recent, appeal I disputed such a description.

I had to endure a verdict being issued at the conclusion of that trial which is now characterised by my lawyers, and the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, as unreasonable.
Aeroplane with Megrahi on board leaving Glasgow Airport
A Libyan aircraft leaves Glasgow Airport with Megrahi on board

To me, and to other right thinking people back at home in Libya, and in the international community, it is nothing short of a disgrace.

As a result of my surrender, and that judgment of the Court, I had to spend over 10 years in prison.

I cannot find words in my language or yours that give proper expression to the desolation I have felt. This horrible ordeal is not ended by my return to Libya.

It may never end for me until I die. Perhaps the only liberation for me will be death.

And I say in the clearest possible terms, which I hope every person in every land will hear: all of this I have had to endure for something that I did not do.

The remaining days of my life are being lived under the shadow of the wrongness of my conviction.

I have been faced with an appalling choice: to risk dying in prison in the hope that my name is cleared posthumously or to return home still carrying the weight of the guilty verdict, which will never now be lifted.

The choice which I made is a matter of sorrow, disappointment and anger, which I fear I will never overcome.

I say goodbye to Scotland and shall not return. My time here has been very unhappy and I do not leave a piece of myself. But to the country's people I offer my gratitude and best wishes.

[yialousa1971]

Links to these quotes please.

http://www.answers.com/topic/king-david-hotel-bombing

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/318411/King-David-Hotel

Don't tell me you thought the Arabs blew up the King David Hotel?

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/terminal_velocity.htm

So I'm waiting for your answer bugs (CBBB)?