Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

[Oracle]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

They added a lot more ... Pure greed! Untrustworthy barbarians.

Turkish Expansionism ... Unstoppable?

[denizaksulu]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

They added a lot more ... Pure greed! Untrustworthy barbarians.

Turkish Expansionism ... Unstoppable?

I did not think that O and B were the same.

My comments which he found objectionable were in relation to the map. I cant see why he does not see that. Thank you for that info anyway. I feel more enlightened now.

[YFred]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

Bafidi knew that on account that his ancestors used to work for my dad as Labourer.
As to the change of the map, we did have one Lurucadi who was in some way related to Turkesh, now that may have been the reason for including Lurucina in the current map, however I can't explain how they decided to take 2.5% more than they should have done!
When I see that individual next time I'll grill him to see if he will divulge any info.

[denizaksulu]

yes and because they put turkish cypriots as police men mostly..

If you read Insans' link below, you will find the truth about the Auxillaries. After EOKA was formed so many GC's left the force etc... just read it. The author is Greek(apparently) so it would not be Turkish propaganda.

[YFred]

I think too much is made of EOKA being anti-communist.

Grivas was labelled with that from his Greek civil war fighting days and it probably stuck even though he had moved on to a different campaign; albeit one which had no significance to left/right politics of the time since its prime objective was to remove the Brits.

So EOKA being labelled "anti-communist" is meaningless and irrelevant as they were just fighting for freedom. The enemy would have done anything to turn the majority against EOKA.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperialists weren't behind a number of the killings of GCs at the time and conveniently attributed them to EOKA to make GCs think less of EOKA.

No Oracle, they loved them to death. When one eoka man was asked who he would prefer to live with between Communists and Turks, he said neither. Please find me a single example of an eoka man saying that he liked communists.

I wonder why they ordered the murder of Mishauli and Kavazoglu. Were they about to have a coup and turn Cyprus into a communist state?

Get your facts right woman.

[Paphitis]

I think too much is made of EOKA being anti-communist.

Grivas was labelled with that from his Greek civil war fighting days and it probably stuck even though he had moved on to a different campaign; albeit one which had no significance to left/right politics of the time since its prime objective was to remove the Brits.

So EOKA being labelled "anti-communist" is meaningless and irrelevant as they were just fighting for freedom. The enemy would have done anything to turn the majority against EOKA.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Imperialists weren't behind a number of the killings of GCs at the time and conveniently attributed them to EOKA to make GCs think less of EOKA.

Grivas sought help from wherever he could get it. Many EOKA members were leftist, and they too need to be recognized.

Unfortunately, a small section of hardcore "Communists" were also opposed to EOKA, because of Grivas' role in the Greek Civil War.

Today, a very small hardcore element of AKEL is also trying to disgrace the name of EOKA and even associate it with EOKA B and the coup... ....they will not succeed as even AKEL itself will not allow this to happen.

[Paphitis]

Good day to you too Bafidis. How can one be serious when an article is posted in Greek and we are forced to use 'Google translator'. Lighten up old boy.

Then you could kindly ask another member such as to offer you a brief synopsis.

I could but I wouldn't do the article any justice...

[Paphitis]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

The Turks have no right in Kyrenia let alone Lurucina...

Since when did Britain and Turkey have the right to carve up my homeland?

[Paphitis]

If you were a british or american thinking up ways to destabalize cyprus wouldnt you use pro west militia groups to do your dirty work its so obvious its oblivious to most.....Eoka and TMT both are virulent anticommunitst groups...with the majority of both sides being left leaning

I am reading through "Getting it Wrong" by Martin Packard, who was the man who put together the tripartite peace making (as opposed to peace keeping) patrols in Cyprus during the first half of 1964. These were patrols with Packard, one Greek and one Turkish officer going around villages in conflict and reconciling the two sides.

His revelations of that period are an eye opener. And he says of the British attitudes to Cyprus:

"Ultimately everyone has lost from Britain's pursuit of its own narrow self interests in Cyprus and its encouragement of Turkish involvement there. Cyprus has been a prime cause for regional division when it might have been a catalyst for convergence between Turkey and Greece, with vast economic benefits for both countries and for all Cypriots."

Packard illustrates how narrow self interest dominated and perverted the course of events and the British failed to realise that doing it the right way might heave yielded more long term benefits to themselves.

It is useful to bear in mind that this was a British naval intelligence officer who served in critical posts before and after the Cyprus posting. He had access to information and people that were key in the first stages of the problem.

But even so, I still cannot see how partition would be better for the British or NATO than a unified state. THe cold war helped and the fixation with the communist party in Cyprus helped. It is no accident that both EOKA and the TMT were virulent anticommunists.

I don't get your drift WC.

EOKA was a paramilitary guerrilla movement fighting the British for self determination. How can you perceive EOKA to be pro west when they were fighting the Brits?

@ Deniz and YFred - if you can't be serious and stop behaving like children, then get off this thread!

Perhaps Bafidis can tell us why Turkey did not stick to the pre-arranged plans and decided to add Louroudjina/Lurucina to the Turkish part of the map? (Yfred is from Lurucina if you had not noticed)

Bafidi knew that on account that his ancestors used to work for my dad as Labourer.
As to the change of the map, we did have one Lurucadi who was in some way related to Turkesh, now that may have been the reason for including Lurucina in the current map, however I can't explain how they decided to take 2.5% more than they should have done!
When I see that individual next time I'll grill him to see if he will divulge any info.

My grandfather was one of the biggest land owners in his village, some of which is now a golf course. He had many workers in the fields at the time, including many TCs.

He did tell me that there was this particularly weird chap that would work in his Y-Fronts on hot days...That wasn't you was it?