Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

"It is also the TC's doing the same with the GC's."

And with each passing day and every new public statement from Talat we see that this is not the case.

The only positive thing to come out of this process will be that the most accomodating GC politician, Christofias, will have been thwarted by the cynical tactics of the TC side. If Christofias fails then there will be the realisation that talking is not the way to do it. Which is what we should have realised from the start.

There are ways, without resorting to war, to force the other side to wake up.

Nikitas, you have decimated the TC population out of Cyprus, what more can you possibly do?
Wait a few more years and see if the settlers will give you more. There is something called cut and run. Cut your losses while the going’s good.

The next one will be worse than this one. It’s been like this since 1963. Before you know it the TCs will ask for more territory to compensate them for the aid which RoC got and kept it to themselves. Considering we are all part of so called “RoC”, rather selfish don’t you think? Then again the selfish theory has been proven on this forum.

Shoving it is considered to be a purely a Greek preoccupation, so please direct it North West.

[Nikitas]

What losses are the ones to be cut YFred? SO far there are no losses, the choice ie between the status quo or the status quo with our signature and lots of taxation to help the poor TCs. It is a no brainer really.

Like I said, the options of the GC side are more than those of the TCs so time is not running out for the GCs. It is the TCs who have to worry as the embrace becomes an outright sranglehold.

Aid the GCs got frome where? In case you have not noticed it has been years since the RoC received aid from overseas, and even then it was Greek aid. If you are referring to EU programmes, those are open to TCs, if they are willing to act as EU citizens and not the perennial special case.

[-mikkie2-]

I think its not a matter whether we have more options or not. The question is, can we afford to wait any longer for a solution? Can enough pressure be put on Turkey to resolve the problem? For example, is Turkey desperate enough for EU membership to cut and run from Cyprus in order to get it? At the moment, I don't think so. Its going to take many decades before Turkish society and the Turkish elite in particular, extract themselves from 'Kemalism' and Ottoman way of thinking.

[YFred]

What losses are the ones to be cut YFred? SO far there are no losses, the choice ie between the status quo or the status quo with our signature and lots of taxation to help the poor TCs. It is a no brainer really.

Like I said, the options of the GC side are more than those of the TCs so time is not running out for the GCs. It is the TCs who have to worry as the embrace becomes an outright sranglehold.

Aid the GCs got frome where? In case you have not noticed it has been years since the RoC received aid from overseas, and even then it was Greek aid. If you are referring to EU programmes, those are open to TCs, if they are willing to act as EU citizens and not the perennial special case.

You are actually right, because any land you get from TRNC, you will eventually pay back to them to balance the economies. TCs will pay a lot less tax if any at all due to the fact that their earning power is far less. As you know, the whole of the RoC tax revenue has to be shared proportionately and all that. If you feel you have no losses then why do you go on about wanting land back. Surely Magosa, Guzelyurt and Karpas are major losses and the whole point of the negotiations are to get them back. But if you don't want them, why do you wish to join with the TCs. Just declare that you no longer wish to be united and the old saying goes:
Evli evine, Koylu Koyune, evi olmayanin sichan deligine.

[YFred]

I think its not a matter whether we have more options or not. The question is, can we afford to wait any longer for a solution? Can enough pressure be put on Turkey to resolve the problem? For example, is Turkey desperate enough for EU membership to cut and run from Cyprus in order to get it? At the moment, I don't think so. Its going to take many decades before Turkish society and the Turkish elite in particular, extract themselves from 'Kemalism' and Ottoman way of thinking.

You will get more water out of a stone then any more concessions out of Turkey. Stop trying to use others to get your way. It's over.

[-mikkie2-]

"You will get more water out of a stone then any more concessions out of Turkey. Stop trying to use others to get your way. It's over. "

So we must do thing your way then! No regard for your compatriots at all then or for building a common future! Don't expect the GC's to dance to your or Turkeys tune! It takes 2 to tango and at the moment Turkey is not tangoing.

[wyoming cowboy]

the problem with a solution will Turkey continue to tango in cyprus and will the Tc's allow that, probably!!!!!

[Nikitas]

Mikkie said:

"The question is, can we afford to wait any longer for a solution? "

Can we afford a solution like the one taking shape now? Without Morphou, with no substantial return of territory, in which the TCs are made masters of the north and partners in the south? With all settlers becoming citizens with full rights to vote and be elected? If all these things are parts of the final package, and according to public statements of Talat and other officials they are, then the cure is worse than the disease.

Let me paint another option for you, a very painful one- tomorrow morning the RoC officially recognises the TRNC and officially cedes the territory to it. The green line becomes an international frontier between the EU and whatever lies beyond it. The checkpoints are passport controls. The territorial loss becomes official but no less permanent than it will be under a so called solution. It is an extreme scenario but one that is available to the GC side.

TRNC and Turkey will be forever out of Europe. There will be no more bullshit about the continental shelf and other ancillary matters. The TCs will have no more excuses about their fate and no more claims on anything but their state. Which they will have to claim from those that are in real control and that will be intersting to watch.

[-mikkie2-]

Well, as far as Turkey is concerned, she will show her cards at the 'give and take' stage.

The problems is, Turkish view of 'give and take' is we (the GC's) give and they (TC's) take!

It is interesting that the TC's are now questioning the economic viablity of their 'state' if they loose Morphu! If we are supposed to unite then why worry about economic viability of their 'state' when we are supposed to have a united economy? Aren't we supposed to be working together for the common good of the island or are we going to be working in competition with eachother to the detriment of the whole island?

We will end up with a beurocratic quagmire where everything is done twice and have two of everything. Where is the sense in that???? It would be absolute madness and a complete waste of resources.

[-mikkie2-]

"Let me paint another option for you, a very painful one- tomorrow morning the RoC officially recognises the TRNC and officially cedes the territory to it."

Well, that is fine but what will the refugees do? Do you think they will sit back and watch their land given away? They could rise up and cause problems too.

Although what you say is indeed an option, it will have unpredictable consequences and I'm not sure they will be good.

There are reports currently, that in order for the north to be economically viable there needs to be a population of at least 1m people and the labour be very cheap. And perhaps this is what Turkey wants to do. If that happens and we have an EU border running through Cyprus do you thin kthe EU would protect us against a rapidly rising population in the north?

I'm just playing devils advocate here. Of course a bad solution is not the answer and I guess we will find out over the course of the next few months. The likely result is that the talks will fail to get to referendum stage and that the problem will be indefinitely frozen and the international community will let both sides fend for themselves. Turkey will effectively be frozen out of the EU (no need to give 'trnc' recogintion for that to happen), the RoC can then start putting real obstacles in front of Turkey and at the same time causing big problems in NATO and EU defense co-operation. From then on its a question of who breaks first.