Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Got the book and read it, and now going through a second time. I can vouch for the things I know personally, like the peopel who were involved in Famagusta as to the accuracy.

It is also interesting to read the contribution made by the late president of RoC Tassos Papadopoulos in the reconciliation efforts. The stereotype of the intransigent anti Turk is demolished by this book.

The most interesting part of this book is the passage where Packard meets Sampson for the first time and present during part of the meeting is the later dictator Brigadier Ioannides was present. Ioannides was serving in Cyprus in 1964.

[Paphitis]

From the outset, an appalling injustice has been done to Cyprus and its people - the general mindset among NATO powers, that whatever else happened, The Cyprus Government must never be left ultimately to the Cypriots....

And there we have the crux of The Cyprus Problem, which is that Cypriots must never be allowed to be fully in control of Cyprus - hence The 1959 Zurich Agreement, McMillan Plan, and The Acheson Plan.

So what are those powers doing right now? Well recently, they tried to shove The Annan Plan down our throat, which would once again see Cypriots subjugated and not truly in control of their destiny, and where human rights violations against its citizens would have been legalized and enshrined within the constitution...

Cyprus was never given a chance from day one.

So this just reinforces what we already knew all along. The US, NATO and in particular, Britain, screwed our country by not giving us the right to determine our own future, and by sowing the seeds of division amongst GCs and TCs by funding and training both EOKA B and the TMT to create a climate where the island descends into the darkness of Intercommunal Violence creating the perfect pretext to permanent partition the island...

I hope Miltiades sees this clip, and buys the book, as further confirmation that those he himself supports and admires, destroyed the beautiful island of Cyprus and its people....

Miltiades, you should be ashamed of yourself....

[Nikitas]

Paphitis,

You have to ponder the desirabuility of outright partition too for the powers that meddled in Cyprus.

Outright partition means two independent entities on the island, not one. Perhaps this explains the veiled threats of "Taiwanisation" for the north, but not outright recognition of its independence. Because recognising the north would automatically detach the south and cast it free. Threatened by Turkey, but by definition and necessity free and independent.

The meddlers know they have boxed themselves into a corner, and have brought about the situation they did not want: a sizeable Russian presence and investment in Cyprus and therefore the legitimate right of Russia to meddle to safeguard their "interests". It is worth remembering that when a terrorist group bombed a Jeep showroom in Athens the USA saw this as a move against US interests. By analogy the much greater investment in Yermasoya gives Russia a far greater and legitimate right to meddle.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis,

You have to ponder the desirabuility of outright partition too for the powers that meddled in Cyprus.

Outright partition means two independent entities on the island, not one. Perhaps this explains the veiled threats of "Taiwanisation" for the north, but not outright recognition of its independence. Because recognising the north would automatically detach the south and cast it free. Threatened by Turkey, but by definition and necessity free and independent.

The meddlers know they have boxed themselves into a corner, and have brought about the situation they did not want: a sizeable Russian presence and investment in Cyprus and therefore the legitimate right of Russia to meddle to safeguard their "interests". It is worth remembering that when a terrorist group bombed a Jeep showroom in Athens the USA saw this as a move against US interests. By analogy the much greater investment in Yermasoya gives Russia a far greater and legitimate right to meddle.

Quite so Nikitas.

But my line of thinking is that the current status quo may suit the meddling powers, in that it provides them with the means to meddle in Cypriot affairs and keep a tight grip on The Cyprus Government. However, their interests may not lie in recognizing, or even the Tawanisation of the 'north', because the meddling powers may lose their influence. It is important to add that full recognition is also not possible due to UN resolutions, but as stated earlier, this may suit their interests as well.

In the end, the meddling powers want a solution to Cyprus. But the type of solution under discussion is a BBF, ergo a legalized partition of the island into 2 administrative areas. Let's not forget their past record and the types of solutions they have tried to ram down our throat. The Annan Plan for instance, would have taken away our rights to an EEZ, amongst other things. The Treaty of Guarantee would also be in force. So in effect, once again, the meddling powers are forever trying NOT to leave The Cyprus Government or the administration of the island in the control of Cypriots.

Who knows what is in stall for us from the current negotiations...however, I hope that Christofias is not silly enough to arrive at an agreement with Talat, if he believes that the blueprint solution plan can't be accepted by the electorate. Apparently, if a final consensus is not achieved, then nothing has been agreed, so the talks can be scuppered at the final hurdle if things don't go our way. All we need to do is not agree to whatever is under discussion at the time.

If the meddlers have boxed themselves in a corner, they have tried to 'unbox' themselves by giving us The Annan Plan, and then threatening us that this would be the last chance for a solution, and that if the plan is rejected, the international community will take steps to remedy the isolation of the "trnc" and even upgrade its status. Their hope was to scare the GC electorate enough to convince them that the Annan Plan was the be all and end all. And if it came to pass, then the meddlers, would be in complete control of the EEZ (perhaps they had knowledge of the oil and gas reserves), the FIR, and NATO through Greece, Turkey and Britain would have a free ticket to meddle within our Government and our institutions. It was not an enticing solution, and the GC electorate, thankfully, did not fall for the scare tactics.

[zan]

Has everyone who ordered this book read it now?

I have only just watched the clips and got pissed off on clip five when this guy swallows his words when talking about DESTROYED TC VILLAGES and cannot bring himself to say the name of EOKA soon after. His body language gives us more than his book ever could.

[Nikitas]

The term EOKA had gone out of use by the time of these events. You will notice if you read the book that there is a term "organization" which refers to the mix of forces involved in the armed conflict with the TCs.

The presence of Ioannides in 1964 in Cyprus, ten whole years before the invasion, during which it was again Ioannides who was in charge in Greece and was the real commander of the coup, is far more interesting than any body language. Ioannides was a veteran of the Greek civil war, a maniac anticommunist who was convinced beyond reason that the problem in Cyprus was communism and the rest was secondary.

[shahmaran]

It is also interesting to read the contribution made by the late president of RoC Tassos Papadopoulos in the reconciliation efforts. The stereotype of the intransigent anti Turk is demolished by this book.

Got it and read it. Will go over again as I took too long for other reasons.

He had a lot to say about the role of the GC police force on the escalation of the chaos. The leaders will always have to keep their hands clean, I do not see this as surprising, but how will they explain their own police force going around terrorizing people?

Scattered population clusters and the lack of communication between them, seems to be what allowed the division to take place, is the impressions I got.

Many people were more worried than they should have been while others had no idea about many things, allowing them to be easily dragged into a state of panic and chaos.

[zan]

It is also interesting to read the contribution made by the late president of RoC Tassos Papadopoulos in the reconciliation efforts. The stereotype of the intransigent anti Turk is demolished by this book.

Got it and read it. Will go over again as I took too long for other reasons.

He had a lot to say about the role of the GC police force on the escalation of the chaos. The leaders will always have to keep their hands clean, I do not see this as surprising, but how will they explain their own police force going around terrorizing people?

Scattered population clusters and the lack of communication between them, seems to be what allowed the division to take place, is the impressions I got.

Many people were more worried than they should have been while others had no idea about many things, allowing them to be easily dragged into a state of panic and chaos.

Enter stage left: Akritas

[Nikitas]

The police did not obey because by 1963 the police had been suborned in the same way that the mainland Greek armed forces had been undermined and eroded by "patriotic" anticommunist people put in key positions under intense American pressure. Like the Greek army, the Cypriot police of 1963 was a politicised instrument of foreigners.

When I rant about the unacceptable role of foreign army contingents being stationed on the island it is these events I have in mind. The two contingents had a strong intelligence element to them. And both were supposedly serving anti communist interests, ie American obsessions, on the island by undermining institutions and making inroads into the security apparatus of the RoC, which at that time was solely the police. Later when we got "armies" the command and control of those armies passed to foreigners too and that is how it stays to this day.

Packard expresses surprise at the disrespect for the rule of law shown by the police. But he also describes how an American, the inimitable George Ball, points out that the name of the game is partition, ie the cancelling out of the RoC. One has to be totally naive and stupid to think that the "game" was pursued with simple wishes and no moves to gain control on the ground.

After all these years one has to ask whether the outside powers would not have been better served, and their goals more easily achieved, if they had supported the new republic instead of trying to dismantle it from day one.

[shahmaran]

To be honest, I never truly understood the fuss about controlling Cyprus and what makes her so important to others.