Cyprus-Forum.com

[runaway]

Do they have KKTC identity cards?

Are they entitled to have TRNC identity cards?

From the TRNC nationality law:

http://www.mahkemeler.net/birlestirilmis/25-1993.doc

4. (1) Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti sınırları içinde veya dışında Kıbrıslı
Türk babadan olan veya Kıbrıslı Türk anadan doğan çocuklar,
doğumdan başlayarak Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti yurttaşıdırlar.

Children born within or outside the borders of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus of a father who is a Turkish Cypriot or a mother who is a Turkish Cypriot are citizens of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as of their birth.

So these people are not citizens of KKTC so they can't be a minority of this country.

You are operating under the premise that in order to constitute a national minority, the members of that minority must be citizens of that state. It is true that, while there are many provisions in international law for protecting the rights of national minorities, there exists no clear definition of the notion of ‘national minority’.

If for the sake of argument we were to accept the definition provided by an acknowledged expert in this field, Ilze Brands-Kehris, who is the director of the Latvian Centre for Human Rights and Ethnic Studies and in 2006 was elected to serve as the first Vice-President of the Advisory Committee on the Council of Europe Framework Convention on the Protection of National Minorities:

http://www.humanrights.org.lv/html/28210.html

Ilze Brands-Kehris suggests that the definition of the term national minority should include four criteria set by international law: 1) objective - a group whose members have ethnic, religious or linguistic features different from those of the rest of the population 2) subjective – a person himself/herself associates with a group that differs from the rest of the population 3) numerical – a minority may not be a numerical majority, 4) long-lasting relations with the state.

I think we can agree that, if we for the sake of argument accept that the TRNC is a legitimate political entity whose territory covers the area shown on maps issued by that entity (on which no enclaves appear), the Greek Cypriots living in and around Rizokarpaso would then constitute a national minority within that territory. I think points 1), 2) and 3) above are beyond dispute, and as to ‘long-lasting relations with the state’ one can point to the acceptance by the TRNC state since its proclamation of a separate Greek Cypriot muhtar in Rizokarpaso, the provision by that state of primary education and more recently secondary education through the medium of Greek to this community and the fact that TRNC ministries have sent greeting messages on the occasion of Orthodox Christian festivals to the Greek Cypriots living in this region (see my quote earlier in this thread) as evidence of relations with the ‘state’ that go back to its inception.

I am afraid that, under international law, citizenship is not necessarily a defining concept in determining whether a group is a national minority or not. In the case of Rizokarpaso we are talking about a group of people who were not only born in the territory which the TRNC claims as its own but are living in the village of their forefathers and in property to which they have title under international law. Under such circumstances, the passing a nationality law that defines citizenship in racial terms and so denies citizenship to these people – it is irrelevant here whether they wish to apply for citizenship of a self-proclaimed pseudostate that not even Turkey fully recognises – harks back to the Nazi Reich Citizenship Law of 1935 which removed German citizenship from Jews. This law is a travesty of natural justice and can only stand because it is a Micky-Mouse statute passed by an unrecognised state.

Are the Serbs living in Kosova a minority of that country? How do you expect gc s to be minority of KKTC when they don't recognize the TC state? Kosova and Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti are very similar in many aspects.

[Tim Drayton]

Runeway,

Are you so sure that ALL the TCs forcibly moved to Kyrenia want to be there? Have you asked them and know that you can speal on their behalf? I know several who think that Kyrenia sucks and would love to be able to return to their homes in Larnaca and Limassol. Thanks to to knuckleheads like you they are not going to be given the choice.

Some would love to return to Larnaca and Limassol but they will not choose to do that because it is not safe for them to live with gc s. They will be harassed and even killed. I don't see it charming living as a second-class minority in unsafe conditions in a greek cypriot state.

What you fail to realise is that there is a Turkish Cypriot community in Limassol numbering about 200-300. Some of them are people who never left in the first place, and their numbers have been swollen in recent years by others who have decided to return. For example, Turkish Cypriot resident of Limassol, Ayhan Mehmet, is pictured here at the restaurant that he runs in a central location in the city:



For your premise that 'it is not safe for them [Turkish Cypriots] to live with GCs' to hold water you would have to explain how a very small number of Turkish Cypriots continue to live in this now predominantly Greek Cypriot city without any major incidents taking place. Things are not as simple as you see them.

[Tim Drayton]

Do they have KKTC identity cards?

Are they entitled to have TRNC identity cards?

From the TRNC nationality law:

http://www.mahkemeler.net/birlestirilmis/25-1993.doc

4. (1) Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti sınırları içinde veya dışında Kıbrıslı
Türk babadan olan veya Kıbrıslı Türk anadan doğan çocuklar,
doğumdan başlayarak Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti yurttaşıdırlar.

Children born within or outside the borders of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus of a father who is a Turkish Cypriot or a mother who is a Turkish Cypriot are citizens of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as of their birth.

So these people are not citizens of KKTC so they can't be a minority of this country.

You are operating under the premise that in order to constitute a national minority, the members of that minority must be citizens of that state. It is true that, while there are many provisions in international law for protecting the rights of national minorities, there exists no clear definition of the notion of ‘national minority’.

If for the sake of argument we were to accept the definition provided by an acknowledged expert in this field, Ilze Brands-Kehris, who is the director of the Latvian Centre for Human Rights and Ethnic Studies and in 2006 was elected to serve as the first Vice-President of the Advisory Committee on the Council of Europe Framework Convention on the Protection of National Minorities:

http://www.humanrights.org.lv/html/28210.html

Ilze Brands-Kehris suggests that the definition of the term national minority should include four criteria set by international law: 1) objective - a group whose members have ethnic, religious or linguistic features different from those of the rest of the population 2) subjective – a person himself/herself associates with a group that differs from the rest of the population 3) numerical – a minority may not be a numerical majority, 4) long-lasting relations with the state.

I think we can agree that, if we for the sake of argument accept that the TRNC is a legitimate political entity whose territory covers the area shown on maps issued by that entity (on which no enclaves appear), the Greek Cypriots living in and around Rizokarpaso would then constitute a national minority within that territory. I think points 1), 2) and 3) above are beyond dispute, and as to ‘long-lasting relations with the state’ one can point to the acceptance by the TRNC state since its proclamation of a separate Greek Cypriot muhtar in Rizokarpaso, the provision by that state of primary education and more recently secondary education through the medium of Greek to this community and the fact that TRNC ministries have sent greeting messages on the occasion of Orthodox Christian festivals to the Greek Cypriots living in this region (see my quote earlier in this thread) as evidence of relations with the ‘state’ that go back to its inception.

I am afraid that, under international law, citizenship is not necessarily a defining concept in determining whether a group is a national minority or not. In the case of Rizokarpaso we are talking about a group of people who were not only born in the territory which the TRNC claims as its own but are living in the village of their forefathers and in property to which they have title under international law. Under such circumstances, the passing a nationality law that defines citizenship in racial terms and so denies citizenship to these people – it is irrelevant here whether they wish to apply for citizenship of a self-proclaimed pseudostate that not even Turkey fully recognises – harks back to the Nazi Reich Citizenship Law of 1935 which removed German citizenship from Jews. This law is a travesty of natural justice and can only stand because it is a Micky-Mouse statute passed by an unrecognised state.

Are the Serbs living in Kosova a minority of that country? How do you expect gc s to be minority of KKTC when they don't recognize the TC state? Kosova and Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti are very similar in many aspects.

I don't expect them to be, because in my view there is only one Cyprus and it is the home of all Cypriots. I am arguing that, from within your own paradigm, you have no choice but to accept that they are. You are a foul-mouthed, ignorant noxious lout who has cast insults left right and centre at everbody in this thread. Therefore when I saw you dish out the following comment along with a mild (by your standards) insult on page 6 of this thread:
"Idiot there is no Greek minority in KKTC"
that is clearly incompatible with your position on the TRNC, I have chosen to keep hammering on about it until you retract, and are thus forced to accept the accolade of 'idiot' yourself.
As I said to Deniz, it is just a way of passing a few idle moments.

[runaway]

I don't expect them to be, because in my view there is only one Cyprus ..

Your view is wrong. If everyone had shared your view, today Cyprus would be a Greek-only island annexed to Greece through enosis.Maybe it is time for you to move to Gibraltar or to Belfast to defend one Spain and one Ireland free of British occupation.