Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Just show's how sincere Ankara's 'winds of peace' is......not at all.

Who told you that Ankara is sincere when it comes to Cyprus? We, Turkish Cypriots, also complain a lot about Ankara's policy in Cyprus. The problem is we're not sure either if GCs are sincere in a bicommunal bizonal federation. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place...

Mete,
To say you are not sure if the GCs are sincere about bicommunal - bizonal federation, to me is a very abstract argument. The problem is not the headlines but the content. Obviously GCs are not in favor of a bicommunal - bizonal federation in the way the TCs understand and define it. When we agreed on this type of solution, unfortunately we did not define it in most of its details. Equally unfortunately, there is no universally accepted standard recipe of how a BBF should be like, nor there is a recipe for any other political system.

You said in another thread that TCs do not trust Turkey but do not trust the GCs either. Between the two, the majority chooses to follow Turkey’s domination, perceiving it as a lesser evil than the GC domination.

I would like to ask you here, how do you perceive the GC domination to materialize over the TCs and what are some of the things that make you so fearful of the GCs and thus not to trust them? I ask this question because in mind there is a strong impression that the mistrust and fear is used more of an excuse so that the TC elite can secure a solution which will allow them to keep going their own -separate- sweet way and at the same time enjoy the privileges of being an equal partner of a recognized government of the whole of Cyprus -something which they do not enjoy now.

[sadik]

I would like to ask you here, how do you perceive the GC domination to materialize over the TCs and what are some of the things that make you so fearful of the GCs and thus not to trust them? I ask this question because in mind there is a strong impression that the mistrust and fear is used more of an excuse so that the TC elite can secure a solution which will allow them to keep going their own -separate- sweet way and at the same time enjoy the privileges of being an equal partner of a recognized government of the whole of Cyprus -something which they do not enjoy now.

You describe it so well that it almost makes me want to go my own seperate sweet way.

[metecyp]

I would like to ask you here, how do you perceive the GC domination to materialize over the TCs and what are some of the things that make you so fearful of the GCs and thus not to trust them?

Personally, what makes me fearful of living as a minority in a GC majority is the GC mentality that "We're the majority". This mentality brought Enosis in Cyprus, this mentality was used to justify it. I know this is past but even in this forum, we hear the same arguments today from some GC forum members.

Secondly, I fear of economic domination. In a future solution where TCs are a minority in Cyprus and where there's no protections for TCs to be majority in their own state, soon enough all major hotels, businesses, industry will be owned by GCs. TCs will simply be workers in those businesses and we'll be forced (not directly by GCs but indirectly by economic conditions) to learn Greek and use Greek in daily life because we will be working for the majority. Even though there's nothing wrong in learning Greek and working for GCs, in the long run, TCs will have no voice in Cyprus because as you know, there can't be no political voice without an economic one.

Thirdly, GC society is not that sensitive to the wishes of "others". The majority of GCs were unaware of what TCs went through between 1963-1974. Very few GCs question why a TC might be bothered to see a Greek flag next to the RoC. No GC ever questions why there are no TCs in the RoC and no GC ever demands the GC leadership to make steps to introduce TCs in the RoC. All this in turn make me think "Why would they care about us in the future?"

Finally, the last 40 years adds on all my suspicions. GCs didn't like 1960 agreements and they will probably not like the new agreement we'll have. What happens to us if GCs want to change the constitution again? We don't want to be kicked out of the government again. That's why we're so keen on having our own "statelet" so it won't be so easy for GCs to devise another Akritas plan to reduce our rights because they would know that if the federal government has to work.

[detailer]

I would like to ask you here, how do you perceive the GC domination to materialize over the TCs and what are some of the things that make you so fearful of the GCs and thus not to trust them?

Personally, what makes me fearful of living as a minority in a GC majority is the GC mentality that "We're the majority". This mentality brought Enosis in Cyprus, this mentality was used to justify it. I know this is past but even in this forum, we hear the same arguments today from some GC forum members.

Secondly, I fear of economic domination. In a future solution where TCs are a minority in Cyprus and where there's no protections for TCs to be majority in their own state, soon enough all major hotels, businesses, industry will be owned by GCs. TCs will simply be workers in those businesses and we'll be forced (not directly by GCs but indirectly by economic conditions) to learn Greek and use Greek in daily life because we will be working for the majority. Even though there's nothing wrong in learning Greek and working for GCs, in the long run, TCs will have no voice in Cyprus because as you know, there can't be no political voice without an economic one.

Thirdly, GC society is not that sensitive to the wishes of "others". The majority of GCs were unaware of what TCs went through between 1963-1974. Very few GCs question why a TC might be bothered to see a Greek flag next to the RoC. No GC ever questions why there are no TCs in the RoC and no GC ever demands the GC leadership to make steps to introduce TCs in the RoC. All this in turn make me think "Why would they care about us in the future?"

Finally, the last 40 years adds on all my suspicions. GCs didn't like 1960 agreements and they will probably not like the new agreement we'll have. What happens to us if GCs want to change the constitution again? We don't want to be kicked out of the government again. That's why we're so keen on having our own "statelet" so it won't be so easy for GCs to devise another Akritas plan to reduce our rights because they would know that if the federal government has to work.

Why don't I have such an explanation power?

[-mikkie2-]

Metecyp,

The point is that if we are a state of law then these issues shouldn't need to surface. Your overwhelming need to be 'independant' of the GC's leads us to two separate states. At the end of the day, we have to place trust in you and you in us. We cannot build a state based on suspicions - it will just create more problems than it solves.

In the short term, Turkey served your interests. In the long run, it goes way against those interests. The more you allow Turkey to 'talk' on your behalf the more dependant you become and in the end you will just be a tiny minority in a larger Turkey. If you think that is better than trying to come to an agreement with the GC's that takes into account their needs as well then there is very little us GC's can do.

I have said in the past that the solution to the Cyprus Problem is in the hands of the TC's. It will take a very courageous leader to go against Turkey and to truly represent the TC community in Cyprus.

[metecyp]

The point is that if we are a state of law then these issues shouldn't need to surface.

Exactly but who can guarantee that we'll be a state of law? The RoC in 1960 was supposed to be a state of law but that didn't stop Makarios to ask for changes in the constitution or it didn't stop Grivas attacking TCs (may I also add it also didn't stop TMT).

Your overwhelming need to be 'independant' of the GC's leads us to two separate states.

We need to be indepedant enough to make sure that if something goes wrong, we're not left without anything again and this is something you should appreciate because we lived without a proper state for more than 40 years now.

At the end of the day, we have to place trust in you and you in us. We cannot build a state based on suspicions - it will just create more problems than it solves.

I know that trust is the key element here but you cannot create trust overnight either. We can just close our eyes and say "Ok, we trust GCs, let's be a minority in a unitary state". Instead we choose to say "Ok, we trust GCs, let's start with a bicommunal bizonal federation". If everything goes ok in a BBF, we would eventually turn into a unitary state in the future anyway. I mean if everyone is happy about the situation and if we end up having a true Cypriot nation, then why do we need divisions?

[Viewpoint]

metecyp very well put I support your arguement 100% and am very interested to read what GC forum members have to say, and please dont beat around the bush and go all diplomatic like -mikkie2-, we are all intelligent enough to understand the real fears of TCs and why they continue to rigorously defend against a unitary state with GCs and opt for BBF to start with preferring to take one step at a time before contemplating a complete union. Why do GCs want to go to level 2 before we get to level one??? overcoming the trust issue....

[Kifeas]

Deleted by poster

[Main_Source]

Personally, what makes me fearful of living as a minority in a GC majority is the GC mentality that "We're the majority". This mentality brought Enosis in Cyprus, this mentality was used to justify it. I know this is past but even in this forum, we hear the same arguments today from some GC forum members

Actually, the mentality that brought Enosis was that we as a people were being screwed over for over 500 years and did not want to suffer occupation anymore. Other Greek lands were joined to a new state of Greece and Cyprus was like any other Greek island before the Ottoman invasion. The total suffering being forced onto Greeks by the Ottomans and the embrassment by the British is what caused Enosis.

[demetriou_74]

source is right. cyprus would get security from enosis.