Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Epsilon wrote:

"Prior to the junta taking over in 67 the Greek military under Papandreou had a fully armed Greek division on Cyprus, the Junta's first order of business was to remove this division"

You would do well to look at the Martin Packard thread and watch his clips on Youtube. Then you will see that the overthrow of Makarios was not a Junta only obsession. Others before had thought of the idea too and were waiting for orders from their foreign "allies" to do it.

In the end, as much as I hate to admit it, the reasong that Cyprus is independent today, and not divided and doubly united, is because of Makarios.

[EPSILON]

Epsilon wrote:

"Prior to the junta taking over in 67 the Greek military under Papandreou had a fully armed Greek division on Cyprus, the Junta's first order of business was to remove this division"

You would do well to look at the Martin Packard thread and watch his clips on Youtube. Then you will see that the overthrow of Makarios was not a Junta only obsession. Others before had thought of the idea too and were waiting for orders from their foreign "allies" to do it.

In the end, as much as I hate to admit it, the reasong that Cyprus is independent today, and not divided and doubly united, is because of Makarios.

I did not wrote what you are stating above.someone else did.As for Makarios -Great leader such as Karamanlis/A Papantreou - actually bul/shts!!!Makarios first aim was to be President- all others were second.(like the other two i stated above).Unfortunately the "GREATS" in Greece and Cyprus are not dealling with politics ourdays.They are just silent.

[Byron]

A man against the Turks, Nazis, an Empire and the Communists. General Georgios Grivas Digenis, was the perfect hero. "Aksios tis Patridos", that is, "a worthy son of the Motherland."
Union with Greece was not achieved but without Grivas' heroic struggle there would have not been an independent Cyprus.
The Greek Cypriot heroes died for "enosis", union with the Motherland, not independence. They marched to their deaths yelling: "We were born Greeks and we will die Greeks".
Learn!!

Very good post

[Byron]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

May be Cyprus should have remained under British Colonial rule something you would have continued to enjoy with your fellow Brits and turks.

[Byron]

Enough of this Greek bashing. Greece today would throw all its might in defending Cyprus against the Turks. Realistically if you guys remember the reason the junta fell in Greece in 74 was because of the debacle created by it in Cyprus. Being handcuffed by a revolution and by its erosion in military power from 67-74 Greece at that time could not be effective..We Greek cypriots must let go of the bitterness we feel against the "Kalamarades" which they hate to hear. Prior to the junta taking over in 67 the Greek military under Papandreou had a fully armed Greek division on Cyprus, the Junta's first order of business was to remove this division. The Turks would have thought long and hard and in the end not invaded in 74 if the division was in place.. What i saw pre 74 while in school were fascistic propaganda from the junta school curiculum....Outsiders used the trickeries we taught them against us ....

Which pills did you forget to take this morning? Greece had plenty of opportunity to defend their GC cousins in 74; all they had to do was to attack Turkey herself. One division in Cyprus would have been wiped out sooner or later.
Carry on with your wet dreams and your beloved Greece.

The only reason you invaded Cyprus was because you had the complete backing of Kissinger and Britain . Why dont you try now to take the whole island and lets see if your troops can go forward or whether they are good swimmers.

[Byron]

Oracle,

The issue is not if the Cypriots wanting Enosis were wrong. It is the oerwhelming romantic notion of Enosis at the expense of any practical consideration that was wrong.

Sure, Enosis as an aspiration was OK. But what would be the actual concrete union be like? Would Cyprus with its efficient civil service and practical organization be allowed to contribute to the welfare of all Greeks, anyone posting such questions in the 60s, even in the 70s was called a traitor and his views dismissed.

To give an example- once a Greek reaches pensionable age, even if he has been faultless in his contributions for 35 years, it takes him anywhere from 2 to 5 years to settle the buraucratic formalities and start receiving his pension. A Cypriot gets his pension with a two month maximum delay.

Have you heard of any Cypriot expert on national insurannce being asked to act as a consultant to the Greek national insurance scheme? I have not. When I suggest it I get laughed at for suggesting a Koumbaros would be able to help Greece. Often the Koumbaros is Hazokoumbaros, especially when the social grouping thinks there are no Cypriots present.

It is alarming to think that this arrogant attitude might carryo over to military planning.

I have observed the progress of Cypriot businessmen in Greece. Cypriots have made great progress even in industries like shipping where we had no prior experience or tradition. Methodical application and hard work usually overpower flair and bombast. Same goes for diplomacy and strategy.

Nikitas, I completely agree with what you say and am fervently against Enosis (as were my parents, since at least the 60s).

But we were discussing the notion of why GCs of the 50s would have been wrong in wanting Enosis. The administrative points you make apply to Greece of the 70s onwards, but were not an issue for GCs wanting Enosis in the 50s.

In the historical context of the fight for freedom, knowing perhaps that GB would not let go easily, and Turkey increasingly interested in Cyprus, Greece was the practical, safe-haven choice for the majority of the Cypriots, without expectations of harming the minorities.

The reason Greek Cypriots wanted Enosis is simple - they were GREEKS !! " Everything else is poetry"- Attilio Lazzarin

[miltiades]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

May be Cyprus should have remained under British Colonial rule something you would have continued to enjoy with your fellow Brits and turks.

Who said that !!
I have never uttered one word criticizing the struggle of 1955-59 .
I have many British relations and friends as well as many T/C friends that make much more of a contribution to our struggle to unite our island than you and your fellow pseudo patriots !!
Kikapu , Birkibrisly , Iceman , Cem , Vuryek Umit o7 Deniz and many many more have been more constructive to the unification efforts than any of you will ever be.
There are hundreds if not thousands of T/Cs that want an independent and united Cyprus with all foreign troops removed . Are they concerned about the fact that amongst us exist extreme anti Cypriot elements ? I think they are .

[Byron]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

May be Cyprus should have remained under British Colonial rule something you would have continued to enjoy with your fellow Brits and turks.

Who said that !!
I have never uttered one word criticizing the struggle of 1955-59 .
I have many British relations and friends as well as many T/C friends that make much more of a contribution to our struggle to unite our island than you and your fellow pseudo patriots !!
Kikapu , Birkibrisly , Iceman , Cem , Vuryek Umit o7 Deniz and many many more have been more constructive to the unification efforts than any of you will ever be.
There are hundreds if not thousands of T/Cs that want an independent and united Cyprus with all foreign troops removed . Are they concerned about the fact that amongst us exist extreme anti Cypriot elements ? I think they are .

From the way you write when not using foul language, you are totally against ENOSIS. It is easy to condemn ENOSIS 50 years on. What we must try to understand is why the vast majority of Greek Cypriots demanded enosis at the time. They wanted freedom, freedom from Colonial rule. Enosis was denied to Cyprus by the British who wanted to keep Cyprus as a military base, that is why they created the Turkish Minority problem. Under the 1923 Lausanne Treaty, Turkey relinquished all rights on Cyprus and the only way the turks got back in was because of British propaganda. Britain had always considered giving Cyprus to Greece but they feared that Greece could one day become Communist and their military base on Cyprus be lost. Cypriot enosis was no different to that of CRETE according to British historical papers.

[insan]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

May be Cyprus should have remained under British Colonial rule something you would have continued to enjoy with your fellow Brits and turks.

Who said that !!
I have never uttered one word criticizing the struggle of 1955-59 .
I have many British relations and friends as well as many T/C friends that make much more of a contribution to our struggle to unite our island than you and your fellow pseudo patriots !!
Kikapu , Birkibrisly , Iceman , Cem , Vuryek Umit o7 Deniz and many many more have been more constructive to the unification efforts than any of you will ever be.
There are hundreds if not thousands of T/Cs that want an independent and united Cyprus with all foreign troops removed . Are they concerned about the fact that amongst us exist extreme anti Cypriot elements ? I think they are .

From the way you write when not using foul language, you are totally against ENOSIS. It is easy to condemn ENOSIS 50 years on. What we must try to understand is why the vast majority of Greek Cypriots demanded enosis at the time. They wanted freedom, freedom from Colonial rule. Enosis was denied to Cyprus by the British who wanted to keep Cyprus as a military base, that is why they created the Turkish Minority problem. Under the 1923 Lausanne Treaty, Turkey relinquished all rights on Cyprus and the only way the turks got back in was because of British propaganda. Britain had always considered giving Cyprus to Greece but they feared that Greece could one day become Communist and their military base on Cyprus be lost. Cypriot enosis was no different to that of CRETE according to British historical papers.

British didn't create Turkish minority problem in Cyprus. Brits had/have common interests both with Turks and Greeks. They were in same alliance after all. Brits exerted to protect their own interests in Cyprus besides find a solution to satisfactory for Cypriots, Greece and Turkey...

[Byron]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

May be Cyprus should have remained under British Colonial rule something you would have continued to enjoy with your fellow Brits and turks.

Who said that !!
I have never uttered one word criticizing the struggle of 1955-59 .
I have many British relations and friends as well as many T/C friends that make much more of a contribution to our struggle to unite our island than you and your fellow pseudo patriots !!
Kikapu , Birkibrisly , Iceman , Cem , Vuryek Umit o7 Deniz and many many more have been more constructive to the unification efforts than any of you will ever be.
There are hundreds if not thousands of T/Cs that want an independent and united Cyprus with all foreign troops removed . Are they concerned about the fact that amongst us exist extreme anti Cypriot elements ? I think they are .

From the way you write when not using foul language, you are totally against ENOSIS. It is easy to condemn ENOSIS 50 years on. What we must try to understand is why the vast majority of Greek Cypriots demanded enosis at the time. They wanted freedom, freedom from Colonial rule. Enosis was denied to Cyprus by the British who wanted to keep Cyprus as a military base, that is why they created the Turkish Minority problem. Under the 1923 Lausanne Treaty, Turkey relinquished all rights on Cyprus and the only way the turks got back in was because of British propaganda. Britain had always considered giving Cyprus to Greece but they feared that Greece could one day become Communist and their military base on Cyprus be lost. Cypriot enosis was no different to that of CRETE according to British historical papers.

British didn't create Turkish minority problem in Cyprus. Brits had/have common interests both with Turks and Greeks. They were in same alliance after all. Brits exerted to protect their own interests in Cyprus besides find a solution to satisfactory for Cypriots, Greece and Turkey...

In order to protect their military interests the British were passing all secrets to the Turks when they had no right of intervention under the 1923 Lausanne Treaty because Turkey gave up all its rights to CYPRUS. Read the papers released by the British Govt they are available to read then maybe you will change your mind. The Cypriots were used as pawns in a big chess end game !