Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

. More than 80% of the Cypriot people wanted ENOSIS.
Wrong with hindsight but quite right at the time. .

You backward apologist!

Why were 80% of the Cypriots who wanted Enosis wrong according to your superior hindsight?

It may be unnecessary for survival NOW ... but how can you be so confident it was wrong of them to seek it then?

We were wrong because we did not know what scum bugs the Kalamaras were , and we were mentally raped at school so as not to be proud of being Greek Cypriots but forced into believing that we were Greeks.
Enosis with Greece was , mitera Ellada , paramithai tis halimas , nonsense that we fell for because my dear we knew nothing better.
I told you before , I know the Greeks far better than you ever will , and I dont consider them worthy of us Cypriots ( Ta kipriaka gaidouria) to be part of them.
While I'm at it let me get something else of my chest.
I watch Greek TV as well as Cyprus TV.
My favourite Greek tv show is " STIN IYIA SAS RE PEDIA.
I like it because at times it features some of the greatest Greek singers of our times.
What I hate is how utterly unsophisticated the guests can at times be. They smoke like bloody chimneys , they do not have the fucking sense to know that their disgusting dated third world habit can influence the young in thinking that it is cool to smoke.

Last night it was taken off and replaced by a religious programme that bored the pants of me within 10 seconds.
Hell woman , you join the Greeks we are fine as we are , proud Cypriots , better mannered , better ...lovers and , apart from Plonker G.Michael better socialites !!!

ps. I do like the Greeks really , love taking the piss when I'm around them !!

Just proves one thing.

That the Cypriots and Greeks are the same so how can it be wrong for Cyprus to unify with Greece when this is what the majority desired at the time? This is what democracy is all about.

[miltiades]

I am not saying it was the right thing for Cyprus ... we'll never know. It certainly isn't now. But how can anyone be as cocksure as Miltiades that those GCs wanting Enosis, were wrong.

Sure Nikitas, Greece was not after reciprocating by expanding its borders to Cyprus ... or maybe it was prevented by GB. After all, they wouldn't have been able to keep their bases here if Greece was in charge. The Turks would have had to be cut-off from maintaining any interest and Greek would have been the Official language so that further excuses for division would have been minimised. These are the things those Enosis seeking GCs were probably after ... So, how were they wrong?

Oracle I lived those years , we had nothing to hold on to apart from either ENOSIS or Communism.
Never in our history were we the masters of our own destiny. Independence on its own simply was not enough .
We looke up to Greece , after all all the history we learned at school was not about Cyprus but about Greece. The schools did not even make an attempt to teach Cypriot history , our text books were Greek produced.
We learned all about the heroics of the Greeks both modern and ancient , we were taught what the system wanted us to learn. One example is that we were never told that Cyprus WAS OFFERED BY BRITAIN TO GREECE AND WAS REJECTED !!!
Regardless what conditions were attached to this offer we had a right to be taught this part of history .
Blind nationalistic jingles was what we had to endure strengthened by the the fact that , not knowing the Greeks at all apart from listening to them in films and the radio , we thought the sun shone out of their arses.
Subsequently many of us found them out . The decent Greek as far as I'm concerned is your average working class , the rich and successful are inhospitable selfish uncaring bloody hypocrites .
We found them out in 1963-64 and of course in 1974 .
We are the superb race who pulled ourselves from the edge of the cliff in 1974 when disaster struck , rebuild our island , housed our people regenerated our ruined economy , NEVER EVEN DEVALUING OUR CURRENCY , and build a nation that we are immensely proud off. We joined Europe , by far the most fundamental success of our nations short history. As an independent nation we must strive to maintain our hard earned independence and strive towards uniting our people , G/Cs and T/Cs leading to the removal of the occupying troops and the unification of our island based first and foremost on Cyprus's independence.
One reason I opposed vehemently the A.P was that Cyprus independence had been hijacked by Greek and Turkish sections , police stations , roads and much more divisive NON CYPRIOT aspects.
One reason I'm convinced now that our government must vigorously reject Turkey's insistence on guarantor rights , never again must we be under the influences and directions of either Turkey or Greece .

[wyoming cowboy]

Enough of this Greek bashing. Greece today would throw all its might in defending Cyprus against the Turks. Realistically if you guys remember the reason the junta fell in Greece in 74 was because of the debacle created by it in Cyprus. Being handcuffed by a revolution and by its erosion in military power from 67-74 Greece at that time could not be effective..We Greek cypriots must let go of the bitterness we feel against the "Kalamarades" which they hate to hear. Prior to the junta taking over in 67 the Greek military under Papandreou had a fully armed Greek division on Cyprus, the Junta's first order of business was to remove this division. The Turks would have thought long and hard and in the end not invaded in 74 if the division was in place.. What i saw pre 74 while in school were fascistic propaganda from the junta school curiculum....Outsiders used the trickeries we taught them against us ....

[YFred]

Enough of this Greek bashing. Greece today would throw all its might in defending Cyprus against the Turks. Realistically if you guys remember the reason the junta fell in Greece in 74 was because of the debacle created by it in Cyprus. Being handcuffed by a revolution and by its erosion in military power from 67-74 Greece at that time could not be effective..We Greek cypriots must let go of the bitterness we feel against the "Kalamarades" which they hate to hear. Prior to the junta taking over in 67 the Greek military under Papandreou had a fully armed Greek division on Cyprus, the Junta's first order of business was to remove this division. The Turks would have thought long and hard and in the end not invaded in 74 if the division was in place.. What i saw pre 74 while in school were fascistic propaganda from the junta school curiculum....Outsiders used the trickeries we taught them against us ....

Which pills did you forget to take this morning? Greece had plenty of opportunity to defend their GC cousins in 74; all they had to do was to attack Turkey herself. One division in Cyprus would have been wiped out sooner or later.
Carry on with your wet dreams and your beloved Greece.

[Oracle]

They were selfish!

They were just as right as the Taksim guys were...

The GCs were not selfish in wanting what was right for them, from thousands of years heritage.

As for your Turk-Taksim having any rights .... if you believe that, then you also believe they were as entitled as Hitler was to exterminate Jews.

[Oracle]

. The schools did not even make an attempt to teach Cypriot history

That's because the schools were administered by Brits ... and any attempt at "Cypriot History" would have shown how much the Turks had cost us and for how many hundreds of years we were oppressed.

And you left pretty young ... even in the UK history lessons for juniors only amount to myths and legends and heroic deeds rather than Ottoman slaughters!

[miltiades]

. The schools did not even make an attempt to teach Cypriot history

That's because the schools were administered by Brits ... and any attempt at "Cypriot History" would have shown how much the Turks had cost us and for how many hundreds of years we were oppressed.

And you left pretty young ... even in the UK history lessons for juniors only amount to myths and legends and heroic deeds rather than Ottoman slaughters!

No Oracle , our schools were administered by the Greek Educational system . Our History books were the same as those used in Greece just as all other books.
The Brits , for all their faults , stayed out of our educational system .When English lessons were introduced at secondary schools , EOKA issued directives that no G/C student should participate and all English books provided should be destroyed. I was one of those kids in 1957-58 who was gathering English text books and burning them .

In June 1953 when Queen Elizabeth was crowned , our secondary schools were instructed by the British to have celebrations . We were told that cakes and other treats would be given out to the children , I was in first year , proti dimotikou , and I could not understand why we had to either celebrate the coronation of the British monarch or why we should refuse the sweets!!!! Wasn't into wine then !!
The kids from my village stayed away on that day and were happy that the church shared out ...kollifa with pomegranate seeds !!!
It was 3 months and 8 days later that I , as a child of 7 years old , saw the light , could not express my new found freedom then , following my loss , but I most certainly made up years later .

[Nikitas]

Oracle,

The issue is not if the Cypriots wanting Enosis were wrong. It is the oerwhelming romantic notion of Enosis at the expense of any practical consideration that was wrong.

Sure, Enosis as an aspiration was OK. But what would be the actual concrete union be like? Would Cyprus with its efficient civil service and practical organization be allowed to contribute to the welfare of all Greeks, anyone posting such questions in the 60s, even in the 70s was called a traitor and his views dismissed.

To give an example- once a Greek reaches pensionable age, even if he has been faultless in his contributions for 35 years, it takes him anywhere from 2 to 5 years to settle the buraucratic formalities and start receiving his pension. A Cypriot gets his pension with a two month maximum delay.

Have you heard of any Cypriot expert on national insurannce being asked to act as a consultant to the Greek national insurance scheme? I have not. When I suggest it I get laughed at for suggesting a Koumbaros would be able to help Greece. Often the Koumbaros is Hazokoumbaros, especially when the social grouping thinks there are no Cypriots present.

It is alarming to think that this arrogant attitude might carryo over to military planning.

I have observed the progress of Cypriot businessmen in Greece. Cypriots have made great progress even in industries like shipping where we had no prior experience or tradition. Methodical application and hard work usually overpower flair and bombast. Same goes for diplomacy and strategy.

[Talisker]

Petcalledros if it was up to people like you then the smaller countries of the world would forever surrender their lands and culture to the bigger imperial foreigners like the Turks and British.

I am not against EOKA A' being against the British, I am against EOKA A' waning ENOSIS and destroy anything/anyone standing in their way...and then thinking of themselves as heroes?

Also many countries left the British Empire peacefully. If that would of happened than Cyprus would not have British Bases.

The vast majority of Cypriot people wanted enosis. Not just EOKA.

EOKA (A) fought for the freedom of Cypriots from the Imperialists (British/Turks). If the imperialists would allow the Cypriot people to peacefully and democratically choose the destiny of their own island, then there wouldn't be the need for EOKA.

I'm not convinced the 'results' of the 1958 plebiscite indicated 'the vast majority of Cypriot people wanted enosis. This was hardly a 'fair' referendum, set within the background of a ruthless guerilla war against the British, but in which more GCs than 'imperialists' were killed by the EOKA 'heroes'. Probably many voted for enosis out of fear. I understand religious coercion was also used - threats to discommunicate, etc. This could hardly be called a peaceful and democratic process.

As it turns out I believe this plebiscite was politically disastrous for Cyprus. Sure, fight the British if you wanted to (although plenty other 'colonies' were obtaining peaceful independence from the UK around that time), but it was counterproductive to mix this with a desire for enosis, and gave the Turks the perfect excuse to start interfering.

[Oracle]

Oracle,

The issue is not if the Cypriots wanting Enosis were wrong. It is the oerwhelming romantic notion of Enosis at the expense of any practical consideration that was wrong.

Sure, Enosis as an aspiration was OK. But what would be the actual concrete union be like? Would Cyprus with its efficient civil service and practical organization be allowed to contribute to the welfare of all Greeks, anyone posting such questions in the 60s, even in the 70s was called a traitor and his views dismissed.

To give an example- once a Greek reaches pensionable age, even if he has been faultless in his contributions for 35 years, it takes him anywhere from 2 to 5 years to settle the buraucratic formalities and start receiving his pension. A Cypriot gets his pension with a two month maximum delay.

Have you heard of any Cypriot expert on national insurannce being asked to act as a consultant to the Greek national insurance scheme? I have not. When I suggest it I get laughed at for suggesting a Koumbaros would be able to help Greece. Often the Koumbaros is Hazokoumbaros, especially when the social grouping thinks there are no Cypriots present.

It is alarming to think that this arrogant attitude might carryo over to military planning.

I have observed the progress of Cypriot businessmen in Greece. Cypriots have made great progress even in industries like shipping where we had no prior experience or tradition. Methodical application and hard work usually overpower flair and bombast. Same goes for diplomacy and strategy.

Nikitas, I completely agree with what you say and am fervently against Enosis (as were my parents, since at least the 60s).

But we were discussing the notion of why GCs of the 50s would have been wrong in wanting Enosis. The administrative points you make apply to Greece of the 70s onwards, but were not an issue for GCs wanting Enosis in the 50s.

In the historical context of the fight for freedom, knowing perhaps that GB would not let go easily, and Turkey increasingly interested in Cyprus, Greece was the practical, safe-haven choice for the majority of the Cypriots, without expectations of harming the minorities.