Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

Fred , I listened carefully to the clip . you obviously have not.
Listen to it again. Sampson said: If Greece after July 24th , following the Turkish invasion, had assisted Cyprus we would have been able to repel and push the Turkish - army - into the sea.
There was no reference whatsoever of pushing as you say the Turks , meaning the T/Cs , into the sea.
There are men whose views are the same as those of some members on the forum today and there are men whose views are shared by the majority of the G/C people in that the Junta and EOKAB brought about the biggest catastrophe that this island has ever had to endure.

Milt, he did not mention the army. He said, Dus Turkus. The Turks, and I don't believe for one moment that he would differentiate between the two, especially if by some miracle he was able to repel the TA.
Sorry.

No Fred , look at it in context , he was talking about holding the Turkish army at bay during the first face of the invasion. He went on to say thaT had Greece assisted the Turks - meaning the Turkish Army - would have been pushed into the sea.

Considering the fact that he was boasting about taking control of 98% of TC land, I really do think that he meant that at all. He comes across as a real megalomaniac. One moment he is saying that the coup was not going to change Makarios's policy and was going to negotiate in peaceful way and then saying he took 98% of land that was under TC control. I can't imagine that you can take control of someone else’s land with peaceful means.

[Tim Drayton]

TEMPORARY SHOP OF ISIK BOOKSTORE OPENS AT YOUTH CENTRE IN NORTH NICOSIA.

Isik bookstore has returned at a temporary location.

Booklovers attended the opening to show their support to the bookstore.
The Isik Bookstore opened its temporary shop at the Youth Centre in Kizilbas in capital Nicosia.

The opening followed an unknown sabotage at the Bookstore that happened in the very early hours of Monday morning.
A large group of book lovers attended the opening to express their support to the Bookstore.

People gathered there and lighted candles in protest of the arson attack.
Books which survived the fire were sold while books that burned
were exhibited under the title ‘the wall of shame’.

Placards said ‘the light that Isik Bookstore sheds on will never fade’ and ‘we can even be born from ashes’

Do you know the name of the street that this is on, or can you give directions to get there? Thanks.

[YFred]

Until the embargoes are removed, TCs are not in a position to do nothing, innit?

If the “TRNC” enjoyed all the freedoms of the RoC, why would they even bother to come to the negotiating table Einstein?

It's called friendship imish. Sometimes when two entities complement each other, the value of the result is greater than the sum of the two individual parts. There is profit in peaceful coexistence. Just look at the French and the Germans. While you’ve got somebody by the scruff of the neck, until you release, you really can't have a conversion with them old boy. Chariki.

[miltiades]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

Fred , I listened carefully to the clip . you obviously have not.
Listen to it again. Sampson said: If Greece after July 24th , following the Turkish invasion, had assisted Cyprus we would have been able to repel and push the Turkish - army - into the sea.
There was no reference whatsoever of pushing as you say the Turks , meaning the T/Cs , into the sea.
There are men whose views are the same as those of some members on the forum today and there are men whose views are shared by the majority of the G/C people in that the Junta and EOKAB brought about the biggest catastrophe that this island has ever had to endure.

Milt, he did not mention the army. He said, Dus Turkus. The Turks, and I don't believe for one moment that he would differentiate between the two, especially if by some miracle he was able to repel the TA.
Sorry.

No Fred , look at it in context , he was talking about holding the Turkish army at bay during the first face of the invasion. He went on to say thaT had Greece assisted the Turks - meaning the Turkish Army - would have been pushed into the sea.

Considering the fact that he was boasting about taking control of 98% of TC land, I really do think that he meant that at all. He comes across as a real megalomaniac. One moment he is saying that the coup was not going to change Makarios's policy and was going to negotiate in peaceful way and then saying he took 98% of land that was under TC control. I can't imagine that you can take control of someone else’s land with peaceful means.

Again Fred you are wrong . Please go back and listen again, or rather read subtitles.

[YFred]

Milti, do you believe that after he repelled the TA, he would have then sat down and started negotiating for a peaceful coexistence, when he had already taken control of 98% of the land that TCs had since 1963?
Come on, please, listen to what I am saying, don't be DiTi.

[DT.]

Once again Fred 2.5%

PROVE IT

You must be blind and deaf old boy. Did you not hear him claim he took 98% of the land under the control of the TCs. Was I out by half percent?
Get stuffed good and proper, old boy.

This is what you said peanut brain

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

You were'nt talking about sampson and 1974 you were talking about being on 2.5% of the land in 63.

Once again

PROVE IT YOU IMBECILE

[YFred]

Once again Fred 2.5%

PROVE IT

You must be blind and deaf old boy. Did you not hear him claim he took 98% of the land under the control of the TCs. Was I out by half percent?
Get stuffed good and proper, old boy.

This is what you said peanut brain

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

You were'nt talking about sampson and 1974 you were talking about being on 2.5% of the land in 63.

Once again

PROVE IT YOU IMBECILE

I don't have to prove it, I was there and saw exactly what your grandparents did to Cyprus. When Bodamya, Dali, Aysozomeno, Piroyi, Petrofan and Gosshi residents all moved into Lurucina to save themselves from form their murdering GC neighbours, arsehole. You want links; ask your grandparents, they are your links. But first get your head out of your arse please otherwise shit gets in your ears and not very conducive to good hearing, old boy. What?

[miltiades]

Milti, do you believe that after he repelled the TA, he would have then sat down and started negotiating for a peaceful coexistence, when he had already taken control of 98% of the land that TCs had since 1963?
Come on, please, listen to what I am saying, don't be DiTi.

Fred let us make something very clear.
I vehemently opposed , just as the majority of G/Cs at the time , the stupid irresponsible military coup against the legit government of the RoC by a bunch of fucking lunatics aided and abated by a bunch of sick Greek junta wankers.

I hope you understand where I stand as well as where the majority of G/Cs stood and stand today.
I unconditionally condemn those responsible for inflicting upon us all such misery .
To hell with the Greeks and to hell with the Turks . We are Cypriots first and foremost .

[YFred]

Milti, do you believe that after he repelled the TA, he would have then sat down and started negotiating for a peaceful coexistence, when he had already taken control of 98% of the land that TCs had since 1963?
Come on, please, listen to what I am saying, don't be DiTi.

Fred let us make something very clear.
I vehemently opposed , just as the majority of G/Cs at the time , the stupid irresponsible military coup against the legit government of the RoC by a bunch of fucking lunatics aided and abated by a bunch of sick Greek junta wankers.

I hope you understand where I stand as well as where the majority of G/Cs stood and stand today.
I unconditionally condemn those responsible for inflicting upon us all such misery .
To hell with the Greeks and to hell with the Turks . We are Cypriots first and foremost .

I know that Milt, and I appreciate it. I wish all the GCs had your mentality, but we have some meglomanic characters on this forum, I think you'll agree.

[DT.]

Once again Fred 2.5%

PROVE IT

You must be blind and deaf old boy. Did you not hear him claim he took 98% of the land under the control of the TCs. Was I out by half percent?
Get stuffed good and proper, old boy.

This is what you said peanut brain

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

You were'nt talking about sampson and 1974 you were talking about being on 2.5% of the land in 63.

Once again

PROVE IT YOU IMBECILE

I don't have to prove it, I was there and saw exactly what your grandparents did to Cyprus. When Bodamya, Dali, Aysozomeno, Piroyi, Petrofan and Gosshi residents all moved into Lurucina to save themselves from form their murdering GC neighbours, arsehole. You want links; ask your grandparents, they are your links. But first get your head out of your arse please otherwise shit gets in your ears and not very conducive to good hearing, old boy. What?

You crossdressing deformed killintjire!!! I caught you out and you don't have shit.

I'll let you off with a warning because of the short period you had in vitro.