Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Until the embargoes are removed, TCs are not in a position to do nothing, innit?

If the “TRNC” enjoyed all the freedoms of the RoC, why would they even bother to come to the negotiating table Einstein?

[miltiades]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

Fred , I listened carefully to the clip . you obviously have not.
Listen to it again. Sampson said: If Greece after July 24th , following the Turkish invasion, had assisted Cyprus we would have been able to repel and push the Turkish - army - into the sea.
There was no reference whatsoever of pushing as you say the Turks , meaning the T/Cs , into the sea.
There are men whose views are the same as those of some members on the forum today and there are men whose views are shared by the majority of the G/C people in that the Junta and EOKAB brought about the biggest catastrophe that this island has ever had to endure.

[miltiades]

YFred you must also understand the other side. GCs see settlers and the presence of Turkish troops as a threat to their long term survival on the island.

Sener Levent has written very clearly on this aspect of GC thinking. I gather that everything he publishes in the Politis paper has already appeared in the TC press. Look up his articles of the last two weeks and you will get a TC perspective of this.

Sener Levent, as much as I admire him is not a practical person. Why try to walk to the moon when you know it can't be done.
After the agreement, Bulk of the TA will leave. That I have no doubt about. Why should anybody who has lived in Cyprus peacfully for 35 years and has had children and grand children be a threat to anybody, just because they originate from Turkey. You see Oracle is a settler, but I don't see any GC feel threatened by her. But I do see plenty of TCs who would wish for her removal back to her country.
Some gossip about the man. Sener Levent was talking to a GC reporter. The GC reporter advised him that if he doesn't stop writing the things that he does, he will be killed. He replied "Our life came to nothing, let our death contribute to peace".
He is a very brave man and an idealist. Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world.

The more that you post the more yoou expose your self as a non thinker and an extremist lacking common sense and the ability to use logic.
How on earth can a supposedly sane individual compare the thousands of Turkish settlers introduced to the occupied part of Cyprus by Turkey , against international laws governing the changing of demographics in occupied lands , introduced to Cyprus against the wishes of even the majority of T/Cs , with Oracles mother who fell in love and married a Cypriot.
Frankly Fred you are talking childish nonsense.

[DT.]

Once again Fred 2.5%

PROVE IT

[halil]

TEMPORARY SHOP OF ISIK BOOKSTORE OPENS AT YOUTH CENTRE IN NORTH NICOSIA.

Isik bookstore has returned at a temporary location.

Booklovers attended the opening to show their support to the bookstore.
The Isik Bookstore opened its temporary shop at the Youth Centre in Kizilbas in capital Nicosia.

The opening followed an unknown sabotage at the Bookstore that happened in the very early hours of Monday morning.
A large group of book lovers attended the opening to express their support to the Bookstore.

People gathered there and lighted candles in protest of the arson attack.
Books which survived the fire were sold while books that burned
were exhibited under the title ‘the wall of shame’.

Placards said ‘the light that Isik Bookstore sheds on will never fade’ and ‘we can even be born from ashes’

[Kifeas]

Why should anybody who has lived in Cyprus peacfully for 35 years and has had children and grand children be a threat to anybody, just because they originate from Turkey...

YFred, those thousands of settlers, who nowadays outnumber the Turkish Cypriots by a large margin, were brought or were let to come to Cyprus for the purpose of altering the demographics of both the TC community and Cyprus as a whole. We should not be expected to legitimize such an illegitimate and illegal undertaking by Turkey and the extremist TC leadership, under the veil of "humanitarianism." An illegality does not produce legitimacy. It is understandable that a limited number of those people -starting from those married with TCs and their offspring will inevidably have to be permitted to stay, but the majority should be adequately compensated so as to be able to start a new life back to their homeland, where they initially came from.

I often ask the following question, without ever getting a reply from all those that support the staying of settlers in Cyprus due to "humanitarian" claims. What if Turkey had brought or had allowed one (1) million such people to come to Cyprus, during the early years of its occupation? Would you still -based on the very same "humanitarian principle," demand that they should permanently remain in Cyprus?

[YFred]

Why should anybody who has lived in Cyprus peacfully for 35 years and has had children and grand children be a threat to anybody, just because they originate from Turkey...

YFred, those thousands of settlers, who nowadays outnumber the Turkish Cypriots by a large margin, were brought or were let to come to Cyprus for the purpose of altering the demographics of both the TC community and Cyprus as a whole. We should not be expected to legitimize such an illegitimate and illegal undertaking by Turkey and the extremist TC leadership, under the veil of "humanitarianism." An illegality does not produce legitimacy. It is understandable that a limited number of those people -starting from those married with TCs and their offspring will inevidably have to be permitted to stay, but the majority should be adequately compensated so as to be able to start a new life back to their homeland, where they initially came from.

I often ask the following question, without ever getting a reply from all those that support the staying of settlers in Cyprus due to "humanitarian" claims. What if Turkey had brought or had allowed one (1) million such people to come to Cyprus, during the early years of its occupation? Would you still -based on the very same "humanitarian principle," demand that they should permanently remain in Cyprus?

To your last question, of course not. But what if these people were brought over to undo the ethnic cleansing activities of the RoC and bring back the TC population to what it was before 63. It's a matter of balance.
You guys created the mess, and in DT's words, you now have to take it like a man, although DT should be in front of the queue on account that his family was involved in driving the TC out and running the family Bordellos. Because only a guilty person would deny their guilt without being accused. In the words of another famous Greek Spiro Agnew, and his famous denial, "The president was not involved in the Watergate".
Guilty as hell I say, with or without heels.

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

Fred , I listened carefully to the clip . you obviously have not.
Listen to it again. Sampson said: If Greece after July 24th , following the Turkish invasion, had assisted Cyprus we would have been able to repel and push the Turkish - army - into the sea.
There was no reference whatsoever of pushing as you say the Turks , meaning the T/Cs , into the sea.
There are men whose views are the same as those of some members on the forum today and there are men whose views are shared by the majority of the G/C people in that the Junta and EOKAB brought about the biggest catastrophe that this island has ever had to endure.

Milt, he did not mention the army. He said, Dus Turkus. The Turks, and I don't believe for one moment that he would differentiate between the two, especially if by some miracle he was able to repel the TA.
Sorry.

[YFred]

Once again Fred 2.5%

PROVE IT

You must be blind and deaf old boy. Did you not hear him claim he took 98% of the land under the control of the TCs. Was I out by half percent?
Get stuffed good and proper, old boy.

[miltiades]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

Fred , I listened carefully to the clip . you obviously have not.
Listen to it again. Sampson said: If Greece after July 24th , following the Turkish invasion, had assisted Cyprus we would have been able to repel and push the Turkish - army - into the sea.
There was no reference whatsoever of pushing as you say the Turks , meaning the T/Cs , into the sea.
There are men whose views are the same as those of some members on the forum today and there are men whose views are shared by the majority of the G/C people in that the Junta and EOKAB brought about the biggest catastrophe that this island has ever had to endure.

Milt, he did not mention the army. He said, Dus Turkus. The Turks, and I don't believe for one moment that he would differentiate between the two, especially if by some miracle he was able to repel the TA.
Sorry.

No Fred , look at it in context , he was talking about holding the Turkish army at bay during the first face of the invasion. He went on to say thaT had Greece assisted the Turks - meaning the Turkish Army - would have been pushed into the sea.