Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

Listen to your hero talking 9:30 mins in to the video.
Also listen to his boast of pushing all the turks in to the sea, not forgetting the Ambassador of Greece telling you who is responsible for 74.

[bigOz]

Anyone who claims N. Sampson was a super hero needs their head examined. The man was a sick murderous fuck - thick as two planks!

He was exactly the right idiot/puppet the Greek Junta needed to use to impose their ambitions on Cyprus, and they did use him!

A national fanatic (like some we have in this forum) who was probably half the reason why GCs ended up where they are today. With the help of similar idiots in this forum TCs might even end up with the rest of the island!

[YFred]

Anyone who claims N. Sampson was a super hero needs their head examined. The man was a sick murderous fuck - thick as two planks!

He was exactly the right idiot/puppet the Greek Junta needed to use to impose their ambitions on Cyprus, and they did use him!

A national fanatic (like some we have in this forum) who was probably half the reason why GCs ended up where they are today. With the help of similar idiots in this forum TCs might even end up with the rest of the island!

No, lets not be greedy. We just want what is ours, not counting the Doctored maps that GCs use to claim that TCs only have 5% of the island. I think we may aswell let them have Varosha even though it's efkaf land.

[Nikitas]

Sampson was not the first choice. He was not even the default choice. It is convenient to claim that he was chosen etc, by TCs who seem to have done very little research.

HE was appointed president because the Cypriots who were approached first REFUSED to collaborate with the Junta- these were Clerides and chief justice Triantafyllides.

Where are the TCs who refused to collaborate with the regime that is driving them into extinction? TCs are becoming a community of collaborators and cannot see that they are participating in their own demise.

[YFred]

Sampson was not the first choice. He was not even the default choice. It is convenient to claim that he was chosen etc, by TCs who seem to have done very little research.

HE was appointed president because the Cypriots who were approached first REFUSED to collaborate with the Junta- these were Clerides and chief justice Triantafyllides.

Where are the TCs who refused to collaborate with the regime that is driving them into extinction? TCs are becoming a community of collaborators and cannot see that they are participating in their own demise.

Back to square one. We have just squared another circle. How many times must it be said? Until the embargoes are removed, TCs are not in a position to do nothing, innit?

[Nikitas]

Remove the embargoes on TCs or the embargoes on settlers? See the dilemma? You clarify the position re the settlers, as the late Ozgur had pointed out, and then you can talk about embargoes.

[YFred]

Remove the embargoes on TCs or the embargoes on settlers? See the dilemma? You clarify the position re the settlers, as the late Ozgur had pointed out, and then you can talk about embargoes.

When you burn the forest, everythin in it burns. I am glad that you have finally accepted that TCs are being victimised. Collective punishment of a population is against True economic war crime

[Nikitas]

YFred you must also understand the other side. GCs see settlers and the presence of Turkish troops as a threat to their long term survival on the island.

Sener Levent has written very clearly on this aspect of GC thinking. I gather that everything he publishes in the Politis paper has already appeared in the TC press. Look up his articles of the last two weeks and you will get a TC perspective of this.

[YFred]

YFred you must also understand the other side. GCs see settlers and the presence of Turkish troops as a threat to their long term survival on the island.

Sener Levent has written very clearly on this aspect of GC thinking. I gather that everything he publishes in the Politis paper has already appeared in the TC press. Look up his articles of the last two weeks and you will get a TC perspective of this.

Sener Levent, as much as I admire him is not a practical person. Why try to walk to the moon when you know it can't be done.
After the agreement, Bulk of the TA will leave. That I have no doubt about. Why should anybody who has lived in Cyprus peacfully for 35 years and has had children and grand children be a threat to anybody, just because they originate from Turkey. You see Oracle is a settler, but I don't see any GC feel threatened by her. But I do see plenty of TCs who would wish for her removal back to her country.
Some gossip about the man. Sener Levent was talking to a GC reporter. The GC reporter advised him that if he doesn't stop writing the things that he does, he will be killed. He replied "Our life came to nothing, let our death contribute to peace".
He is a very brave man and an idealist. Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world.

[Nikitas]

Oracle, like myself, has a mainland Greek mother, and was borne in Cyprus.

The issue of marriage to a Cypriot national is not the point. We are talking ahout people deliberately brought to upset the demographic balance, not about bona fide migrants.

My mother lived her life in Cyprus without voting rights and had to renew her residence permit at regular intervals despite being married to a Greek Cypriot. I do not hear of any such proposal for settlers. Instead I hear Talat saying that these are citizens and their rights are guaranteed.

Which immediately brings up the rights of Cypriots forced to emigrate and who stayed away from Cyprus because of the situation. These expat Cypriots are to be cast off in favor of imported settlers, and that is TREASON by our politicians, of both sides.

I have said before that if the TCs want to boost their numbers then let them carry out an international drive to encourage TCs to return and if necessary charge the the central government budget for economic incentives to epxat TCs but exclude GC expats to stress the pro TC aspect of such a move. And if that is not enough then give expat TCs voting rights as happens with expat Americans.

You see YFred, accepting painful compromised is not that hard if the benefactors are Cypriots. The moment the benefactors are foreign the situation is not one of compromise but of capitulation. Now you can see the difference.