Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.

Pure unadulterated genius!

Lambron na se gapsi je na se gami guzzalin.

[Get Real!]

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.

Pure unadulterated genius!

Lambron na se gapsi je na se gami guzzalin.

Afou ise telia balavos re gamota!

[YFred]

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.

The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.

Pure unadulterated genius!

Lambron na se gapsi je na se gami guzzalin.

Afou ise telia balavos re gamota!

It takes one to know one old boy.

[DT.]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

[DT.]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

The old record is stuck matey, just go on youtube and listen to samson. Lazy sod.

[DT.]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

The old record is stuck matey, just go on youtube and listen to samson. Lazy sod.

Sampson also said he wouldn't hurt any TC's after he came to power. I thought you didn't believe a word he said?

Prove that the enclaves were on 2.5% of the land of Cyprus. Prove it or shut the hell up.

[YFred]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.
So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

I agree with your analysis, except that Turkey is very skillfully manoeuvering towards a position in which she will claim that the political will of the community living in north Cyprus, the majority of whom are now her own people, corresponds to the right of self-determination of the Turkish Cypriot people. How often do we hear the cliche 'The Turkish Cypriots voted "yes" in the Annan plan referendum'? Nobody stops to ask what percentage of those that voted were actually Turkish Cypriots.

By tour definition I can never be British. Tim, I am surprised at you. How long does a person have to live in Cyprus to become Turkish Cypriot.
What about the people who were born in TRNC for the last 35 years, are they all Settlers?
What about the ones in mixed marriages, shall we use the Jewish method, only those who's mother is TC can be a TC?

These are very tricky questions, Fred, and they get harder and harder as time passes. However, you are failing to see the wood for the trees. Turkey is using population transfer for political ends. Your legitimate rights as a Turkish Cypriot are being usurped.

Tim, all that was started by the RoC in 1963 when the whole TC population was enclaved in 2.5% of the land for 11 years, it’s nothing new.
The RoC is the real culprit and yet Turkey gets all the blame. If you analyse it, pre 74 it was all RoC and since 74 it has been both, so mathematically the real blame is with the RoC.
When it comes to the next vote, all of TRNC will vote, but you are wrong to think that TCs would vote any differently if somehow they could be separated. I now plenty of TCs who wouldn't want to give anything back and just join Turkey, as well as refusing to get the RoC passport. That does not emanate from any Turkish propaganda, its the pain the TCs have gone through pre 74. You are right though in that the longer this situation lasts the more difficult it becomes to solve, if it hasn't reached the impossible stage already.

2.5%!!!!PROVE IT!!!

please please please post that map I trashed Zan with

It's not as complicated as that. I quoted you super hero, one N Sampson after he'd been to the hairdresser.

Prove it.

The old record is stuck matey, just go on youtube and listen to samson. Lazy sod.

Sampson also said he wouldn't hurt any TC's after he came to power. I thought you didn't believe a word he said?

Prove that the enclaves were on 2.5% of the land of Cyprus. Prove it or shut the hell up.

No he didn't, he said if Greece came to help him, he would have been able to throw all the Turks in the sea.

[Nikitas]

YFred asks about the settlers born in Cyprus etc.

Either we are moving to a solution honestly and sincerely or we are going to hide behind pretenses.

Settlers, no matter how they arrived and how they got nationality get ZILCH. The reasons are simple.

Cyprus has about 400 000 expatriates overseas, both GC and TC. A large number of them, especially TCs, were forced to leave because of the situation, again, both in 1963 and 1974.

Giving anyone, ANYONE, any special status in Cyprus while ignoring these expatriates is TREASON. I am counting both sides' politicians in this context.

Settlers in Cyprus cannot be compared to you in the UK, or myself in the UK where I lived. We were not forced on the UK by invasion and occupation.

If you want to boost TC numbers then do it by offering expat TCs special status and overseas voting rights. You have no right to displace TCs or any Cypriot, and replace them with settlers.

Christopher Hitchens in his book on Cyprus posed the question "Crete or the Hatay?". It looks like Turkey is trying for a repeat of the Hatay. In that case there is really only one reply- we should have done a better job of bringing about a solution like Crete, that is the inescapable conclustion from monstrous proposals as those that include naturalisation of settlers.

There can be no solution that will allow a non Cypriot to become a "rotating" president. It is that simple.