Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

YFred

GCs are increasingly open and tolerant. Now that is funny

!

the number of TC's crossing each day to work in the free areas, the number of TC number plates seen around the Free area of Cyprus, the number of TCs seeking health care in the free area of Cyprus speak for themselves about the tolerance and acceptance of TC's.

it would appear to me that TC's would better off in a BBF with the GC"s and maintain what's left of their numbers and cultural identity than signing over Cyprus to Turkey.

But you go on a delude yourselves and support Turkey till your end arrives

You are mistaking tolerance with obligation under the EU. The two are not the same.

The same EU obligations (designed to encourage tolerance) that will safeguard TC rights after reunification - without the need for Turkey's guarantee.

[YFred]

YFred

GCs are increasingly open and tolerant. Now that is funny

!

the number of TC's crossing each day to work in the free areas, the number of TC number plates seen around the Free area of Cyprus, the number of TCs seeking health care in the free area of Cyprus speak for themselves about the tolerance and acceptance of TC's.

it would appear to me that TC's would better off in a BBF with the GC"s and maintain what's left of their numbers and cultural identity than signing over Cyprus to Turkey.

But you go on a delude yourselves and support Turkey till your end arrives

You are mistaking tolerance with obligation under the EU. The two are not the same.

The same EU obligations (designed to encourage tolerance) that will safeguard TC rights after reunification - without the need for Turkey's guarantee.

You are avoiding the question. Which is it?

[The Cypriot]

If I keep to the legal 30mph speed limit, is it because I am concerned about:

a) running over a child who might run into the road?
b) getting a speeding fine?
c) both?
d) who cares, so long as children are safer?

[YFred]

You have thrown out the baby with the bath water re gumbare. Sure, the bath is very clean.

[bigOz]

The Turkish Cypriots must resist the efforts to exterminate them .
It is a well known fact the the mainland Turks do not like T/Cs and visa verse..
The T/Cs are an integral part of this island where the mainland Turks are not.

The TCs have been resisiting such efforts by EOKA for many decades, now not only do we have the GC efforts, but the majority of the population in North Cyprus trying to exterminate the TC ID!

But why is this news to everyone? Have I not being saying time and time again over the past one year, if the GCs do not stop making impossible demands for a solution - soon thay will have no TCs left to negotiate with and will have to deal with the mainland Turks who have displaced the TCs and settled in the North...

As they say in our village: You harvest whatever you plant - meaning there is no point in crying for bananas when you decided to plant cactus trees in your garden!

Just carry on arguing about who Cyprus really belongs to for teh next decade, and I doubt there will be any TCs left even in this forum to argue with!

Which in your opinion is the unreasonable demand that the G/Cs are making. As far as I can see Turkeys insistence in legalizing her presence in Cyprus is by far the biggest obstacle. She knows bloody well that no agreement will ever be accepted by the majority of the Cypriot people that bestows on her the right of intervention.
She is fully aware with this and yet she insists knowing full well that all that she wants is annexation , not partition but annexation. The partition has been tried and it has failed , she now wants to see what annexation can bring. What ever happens the future of the T/Cs is in jeopardy by the same people who reputedly came to Cyprus to preserve them !!

Why are the GCs so blind to see that the economic and poletical embargo we have been suffering over many decades has pushed us into the arms of Turkey! Why can't you see that because of the economic pressures there are now more TCs living abroad than in Cyprus!

And they have all been replaced by mainland manual workers whose children have now moved to the ranks of government members, or by clans who are buying / building hotels, casinos, businesses in N. Cyprus!

If I was a GC poletician, realising this, I would withdraw all embargoes against the TCs in the north to allow them to gain their economic independence until we are both EU members - after which there will be no real borders or restrictions between the two anyway - instead of sensation seeeking court cases in Europe about the Greek land left in the North...

However I have a strong feeling it is even too late for that now!

In other words the G/Cs ought to have recognized the "trnc" , accept that their ancestral homes , cities and villages were no longer theirs , assist the northern occupied part to become economically viable and accept that Turkeys invasion was one of a peaceful intervention !!!
My dear Oz , you have to have empathy for the 170 or thousands of G/Cs whose homes have been seized with force and a substantial number of their properties sold to greedy , unsophisticated British yobs.
I dont think so. The entire world agrees with the reality of the northern part of Cyprus being under Turkish occupation. T/Cs , a large number also agree and more will do so as they begin to feel the constrains on their freedom imposed by Turkey. Religious lessons now , no more T/Cs , do you think the T/Cs will accept their forced demise without a challenge? I dont.

Of course I have empathy for the GCs who left their homes in a hurry to escape war - just like I have empathy for more than third as many Turks who had to leave their homes and land in the South. One must stop thinking this was a one way movement and one way loss!

The TCs never asked for war, never attacked the GCs between 1960 and 1974 - even when forced into enclaves for 11 years by the ruling GCs. I need not need to remind you that more than 100 Turkish villages were left behind by the TCs after the 1963 attacks! So what did the rightful government of Cyprus Republic do to compensate those TCs or return their land to them?

Your own leaders including Makarios had admitted that you brought the wrath of Turkish armu onto yourselves! Yet you are punishing the TCs by economic embargoes with the excuse that your land and homes are occupied in the north (as if the TCs left nothing in the South!). YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING THAT WOULD SLIGHTLY DISTURB or PUNISH TURKEY! Economic embargoes in the North mean nothing to Turkey, for North Cyprus is smaller and less populated than its smallest province - and there are 81 of them!

Now Cyprus is fast becoming the 82nd province because more and more TCs are leaving for abroad to join their relatives already there, whilst being replaced by mainland Turks from accross the sea! Old Nicosia of the capital is now completely (or 98% of it) is occcupied by mainland businessmen, workers, residents etc - cross over from Ledra street and you will have no problem recognising them! The rest of Nicosia is fast sharing the same fate...

I live in Girne, and already most of the restaurants, hotels cafes, shops, mechanics, fuel stations and fast growing supermarkets are run by mainland Turks. Famagusta is just as bad, having her share of import workforce most of whom register as Uni students but do manual labour jobs.

Turkey is not putting any constraints on TC's freedom in the North! It is the GC ruled government doing the job for them. TCs will never fight the mainland Turks in the North because of any economic constraint not only because they rather suffer under Turkish rule than GC rule (because of obvious historic experiences) but also if they dare they would probably be wiped out by the mainlanders who now outnumber them in great numbers.

As I said before - the damage is irreversible and under the circumstances I am very pessimistic about any solution. Most of the people who will have to vote for a proposed solution any time end of this year or whenever will be Turkish mainlanders who have earned the privilage and are TRNC citizens! Unlike the position during the beginning of the millienium, over the past 8-9 years, the players have changed together with the goalposts - so do not hold your breath for any TC rebellion...

Religious lessons will never be forced on the TCs, but with mainlanders and their children attending the schools being in majority, who can tell?

We already have more minarets than villages, so you work it out!

[Oracle]

Big Oz .... your signature is nonsensical. You cannot compare the foreign invader Turks with Greeks working/living in Cyprus.

Cyprus is in the EU and the Greeks have as much right as the Poles, French, Spanish, Brits etc ... to live and work in Cyprus.

Whereas ... the Turks do NOT have any legal reason to be here!

[Dr J]

The TCs never asked for war, never attacked the GCs between 1960 and 1974

See the brainwashed fundamentalists we have to deal with.

Reading this thread I KNEW this would happen, the same old Turkish Cypriots refusing to blame Turkey for these attacks but blame to it on Greek Cypriots and international law LOL.

[Nikitas]

The perennial insistence of the TCs to be treated as a special case finally entraps them in the strangle hold of Turkey and leads them to final extinction.

All it takes is some honest introspection to realise that TCs have put themselves in an impossible position. From the beginning they overplayed the Turkey card, in the same way that GCs overplayed the majority card. But at least the GCs had the balls to fight against imposed double union (I do not believe for a minute that the coup was a Greek only affair). And after 1974 the GCs matured and rebounded. By contrast the TCs leaned even more heavily on the Turkey crutch and insisted, via Denktash, on impossible demands, like a territory split of 32 per cent, no property return, bizonality which is effective apartheid and generally behaved as if there was no danger from the import of mainlanders. Voices like those of the late Ozgur were drowned with shouts of traitor.

And now there is the bogeyman of "if not us then you will have to deal with X thousands of settlers". That is no threat. That simply says that the once the TCs disappear the occupiers of the north will have no legal or moral standing and the whole area will be subject to full claims by the RoC.

So rather than use these threats grow up and moderate your demands to levels that the GC can accept. Agree to full EU aquis application for the whole of Cyprus, a reasonable territorial settlement, a democratic federal system with no human rights derogations and you will save your community. Only TCs can do these things, if they first tell the mainlander to go to hell. That is the hard part in a community that has been corrupted by the Turks to the point where it can not see how it is living its own extinction.

[Piratis]

Of course I have empathy for the GCs who left their homes in a hurry to escape war - just like I have empathy for more than third as many Turks who had to leave their homes and land in the South. One must stop thinking this was a one way movement and one way loss!

For TCs it was not a loss but a gain since in the north they were given twice as much than what they left behind. This is why they wanted partition since the 1950s.

The TCs never asked for war, never attacked the GCs between 1960 and 1974

The TCs are exactly the ones who asked for the war. It is them who demanded the annihilation of GCs from half of their island and started the inter-communal conflict in the 50s. And in that conflict, both in the 50s and the 60s, people from both sides were killed. In the 60s the TCs even attacked the Armenians and forced them out of their sector of Nicosia.

So stop pretending that you are angels. The partition plan created by Turkey and followed by the TC leadership (TMT) from the 1950s was what caused both the inter-communal conflict and the war of 1974.

[bigOz]

Of course I have empathy for the GCs who left their homes in a hurry to escape war - just like I have empathy for more than third as many Turks who had to leave their homes and land in the South. One must stop thinking this was a one way movement and one way loss!

For TCs it was not a loss but a gain since in the north they were given twice as much than what they left behind. This is why they wanted partition since the 1950s.

The TCs never asked for war, never attacked the GCs between 1960 and 1974

The TCs are exactly the ones who asked for the war. It is them who demanded the annihilation of GCs from half of their island and started the inter-communal conflict in the 50s. And in that conflict, both in the 50s and the 60s, people from both sides were killed. In the 60s the TCs even attacked the Armenians and forced them out of their sector of Nicosia.

So stop pretending that you are angels. The partition plan created by Turkey and followed by the TC leadership (TMT) from the 1950s was what caused both the inter-communal conflict and the war of 1974.

I remember having this argument with you more than a year ago! That is when I provided you with a chronology of events starting from 50s into sixties, You are not misinformed but an exceptionally stubburn person because you are in a constant denial of the truth.

Next time I visit the forum be ready to compare figures with me with regards to the legally owned land by Turks (which you always confused with their population ratio). Why TCs asked for partition (against Greeks demands for union with Greece), and who attacked whom during the past 40 years!

Till then - sweet dreams...