Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

These objects of shit only deserve the most painful and lingering death that man has ever invented.

I am in no way excusing the dreadful actions of these individuals, but they themselves have grown up within the lowest levels of society, and it could be argued are the consequences (I daren't use the word 'victims') of the hugely unequal society that exists today. They probably have never been properly taught the difference between right or wrong, or good or evil, their minds were probably addled with drink or drugs, and the social expectations within this underclass (with which few of us have any real knowledge, familiarity or understanding) are entirely different to the rest of us.

I am not in favour of capital punishment. In our western societies we have the money and knowledge to improve opportunities and education, and improve the standard of living for the underclasses - we just choose not to do this, and use our prosperity in different ways (military spending, shoring up our financial insitutions, etc). They should serve their jail terms - I'm sure it will not be a pleasant experience for them. I don't believe they will be given new identities in another country. I hope efforts are made to educate and rehabilitate them, and make them aware of the evil nature of their actions, although I fear our prison service in the UK doesn't place this as a high priority.

Oh please!

Don't give me the old 'don't know the difference between right and wrong' argument!

Hang them.

I'm guessing you're a Daily Mail reader. I'd imagine you have no idea of social underclass, drug-fuelled societies, common practice of child abuse. To deny it exists is irresponsible in my view, perpetuates the problem, and therefore contributes to the next Baby P-like death. Will a few hangings cure societies ills, of which this one tragic death is but a single symptom? I think not.

This poor baby died as the result of prolonged abuse. Which was worse, the first time the baby was slammed against the wall, or kicked or whatever, or the one that finally killed? It has been acknowledged the social services system was at fault, the signs of abuse were there and the baby should have been taken into care. They were allowed to behave in this barbaric manner too long, hence the death. They progressed from being abusers to murderers. This could, and should, have been prevented.

I don't read the Daily Fail, no... you are confusing me with Z4.

You stated that these people didn't know right from wrong? Sorry, that is a fatuous argument. How could you survive life without knowing right from wrong...?

How would you managed not to burn yourself, start fights, steal things...? How could you manage to survive to adulthood without knowing?

They knew what they did was wrong - that's why they covered it up... didn't one of them hide when social workers visited? Why did he hide, did he think it was a 'game'? Hide and seek?

They concealed their evil acts because they knew it was wrong.

They are evil, they carried out unimaginable acts of cruelty against a defenceless child.

I'd hang them - I'd be happy to pull the lever. Perhaps others that 'don't know right from wrong' would consider their actions if they understood the consequences.

Most child abusers have themselves been abused when they were children. Therefore, the example they have been set, and experienced, is that child abuse is the norm. That cycle needs to be broken, and that requires much more sophisticated approaches than bringing back capital punishment.

Bullshit I have a friend who was abused as a child and she is the most caring loving mother you could ever wish for so that is just an excuse that some use and get away with using. As Cyprusgrump said it is a guaranteed method. Well said Cyprusgrump I take my hat off to you.

Thanks you!

The problem with Talisker's argument is that everybody that comes before a jury has an excuse for their actions. Should we dismantle the entire justice system and throw the doors of jails open?

Of course not. As you say, there are plenty of people that have the same background and experiences but choose not to steal/rape/abuse, etc.

[lioness 2]

These objects of shit only deserve the most painful and lingering death that man has ever invented.

I am in no way excusing the dreadful actions of these individuals, but they themselves have grown up within the lowest levels of society, and it could be argued are the consequences (I daren't use the word 'victims') of the hugely unequal society that exists today. They probably have never been properly taught the difference between right or wrong, or good or evil, their minds were probably addled with drink or drugs, and the social expectations within this underclass (with which few of us have any real knowledge, familiarity or understanding) are entirely different to the rest of us.

I am not in favour of capital punishment. In our western societies we have the money and knowledge to improve opportunities and education, and improve the standard of living for the underclasses - we just choose not to do this, and use our prosperity in different ways (military spending, shoring up our financial insitutions, etc). They should serve their jail terms - I'm sure it will not be a pleasant experience for them. I don't believe they will be given new identities in another country. I hope efforts are made to educate and rehabilitate them, and make them aware of the evil nature of their actions, although I fear our prison service in the UK doesn't place this as a high priority.

Oh please!

Don't give me the old 'don't know the difference between right and wrong' argument!

Hang them.

I'm guessing you're a Daily Mail reader. I'd imagine you have no idea of social underclass, drug-fuelled societies, common practice of child abuse. To deny it exists is irresponsible in my view, perpetuates the problem, and therefore contributes to the next Baby P-like death. Will a few hangings cure societies ills, of which this one tragic death is but a single symptom? I think not.

This poor baby died as the result of prolonged abuse. Which was worse, the first time the baby was slammed against the wall, or kicked or whatever, or the one that finally killed? It has been acknowledged the social services system was at fault, the signs of abuse were there and the baby should have been taken into care. They were allowed to behave in this barbaric manner too long, hence the death. They progressed from being abusers to murderers. This could, and should, have been prevented.

I don't read the Daily Fail, no... you are confusing me with Z4.

You stated that these people didn't know right from wrong? Sorry, that is a fatuous argument. How could you survive life without knowing right from wrong...?

How would you managed not to burn yourself, start fights, steal things...? How could you manage to survive to adulthood without knowing?

They knew what they did was wrong - that's why they covered it up... didn't one of them hide when social workers visited? Why did he hide, did he think it was a 'game'? Hide and seek?

They concealed their evil acts because they knew it was wrong.

They are evil, they carried out unimaginable acts of cruelty against a defenceless child.

I'd hang them - I'd be happy to pull the lever. Perhaps others that 'don't know right from wrong' would consider their actions if they understood the consequences.

Most child abusers have themselves been abused when they were children. Therefore, the example they have been set, and experienced, is that child abuse is the norm. That cycle needs to be broken, and that requires much more sophisticated approaches than bringing back capital punishment.

Bullshit I have a friend who was abused as a child and she is the most caring loving mother you could ever wish for so that is just an excuse that some use and get away with using. As Cyprusgrump said it is a guaranteed method. Well said Cyprusgrump I take my hat off to you.

Thanks you!

The problem with Talisker's argument is that everybody that comes before a jury has an excuse for their actions. Should we dismantle the entire justice system and throw the doors of jails open?

Of course not. As you say, there are plenty of people that have the same background and experiences but choose not to steal/rape/abuse, etc.

Thank God he is not deciding to make a career move into becoming a judge - Now that thought is very frightening.

[cyprusgrump]

These objects of shit only deserve the most painful and lingering death that man has ever invented.

I am in no way excusing the dreadful actions of these individuals, but they themselves have grown up within the lowest levels of society, and it could be argued are the consequences (I daren't use the word 'victims') of the hugely unequal society that exists today. They probably have never been properly taught the difference between right or wrong, or good or evil, their minds were probably addled with drink or drugs, and the social expectations within this underclass (with which few of us have any real knowledge, familiarity or understanding) are entirely different to the rest of us.

I am not in favour of capital punishment. In our western societies we have the money and knowledge to improve opportunities and education, and improve the standard of living for the underclasses - we just choose not to do this, and use our prosperity in different ways (military spending, shoring up our financial insitutions, etc). They should serve their jail terms - I'm sure it will not be a pleasant experience for them. I don't believe they will be given new identities in another country. I hope efforts are made to educate and rehabilitate them, and make them aware of the evil nature of their actions, although I fear our prison service in the UK doesn't place this as a high priority.

Oh please!

Don't give me the old 'don't know the difference between right and wrong' argument!

Hang them.

I'm guessing you're a Daily Mail reader. I'd imagine you have no idea of social underclass, drug-fuelled societies, common practice of child abuse. To deny it exists is irresponsible in my view, perpetuates the problem, and therefore contributes to the next Baby P-like death. Will a few hangings cure societies ills, of which this one tragic death is but a single symptom? I think not.

This poor baby died as the result of prolonged abuse. Which was worse, the first time the baby was slammed against the wall, or kicked or whatever, or the one that finally killed? It has been acknowledged the social services system was at fault, the signs of abuse were there and the baby should have been taken into care. They were allowed to behave in this barbaric manner too long, hence the death. They progressed from being abusers to murderers. This could, and should, have been prevented.

I don't read the Daily Fail, no... you are confusing me with Z4.

You stated that these people didn't know right from wrong? Sorry, that is a fatuous argument. How could you survive life without knowing right from wrong...?

How would you managed not to burn yourself, start fights, steal things...? How could you manage to survive to adulthood without knowing?

They knew what they did was wrong - that's why they covered it up... didn't one of them hide when social workers visited? Why did he hide, did he think it was a 'game'? Hide and seek?

They concealed their evil acts because they knew it was wrong.

They are evil, they carried out unimaginable acts of cruelty against a defenceless child.

I'd hang them - I'd be happy to pull the lever. Perhaps others that 'don't know right from wrong' would consider their actions if they understood the consequences.

Most child abusers have themselves been abused when they were children. Therefore, the example they have been set, and experienced, is that child abuse is the norm. That cycle needs to be broken, and that requires much more sophisticated approaches than bringing back capital punishment.

Bullshit I have a friend who was abused as a child and she is the most caring loving mother you could ever wish for so that is just an excuse that some use and get away with using. As Cyprusgrump said it is a guaranteed method. Well said Cyprusgrump I take my hat off to you.

Thanks you!

The problem with Talisker's argument is that everybody that comes before a jury has an excuse for their actions. Should we dismantle the entire justice system and throw the doors of jails open?

Of course not. As you say, there are plenty of people that have the same background and experiences but choose not to steal/rape/abuse, etc.

Thank God he is not deciding to make a career move into becoming a judge - Now that thought is very frightening.

Unfortunately there are too many Taliskers that are!

[lioness 2]

You're right there - I'm waiting for a reply from Talisker. With a profound statement no doubt.

[cyprusgrump]

You're right there - I'm waiting for a reply from Talisker. With a profound statement no doubt.

I'm holding my breath...

[lioness 2]

You could be holding it for quite a while as I would imagine it is going to be a novel.

[Talisker]

These objects of shit only deserve the most painful and lingering death that man has ever invented.

I am in no way excusing the dreadful actions of these individuals, but they themselves have grown up within the lowest levels of society, and it could be argued are the consequences (I daren't use the word 'victims') of the hugely unequal society that exists today. They probably have never been properly taught the difference between right or wrong, or good or evil, their minds were probably addled with drink or drugs, and the social expectations within this underclass (with which few of us have any real knowledge, familiarity or understanding) are entirely different to the rest of us.

I am not in favour of capital punishment. In our western societies we have the money and knowledge to improve opportunities and education, and improve the standard of living for the underclasses - we just choose not to do this, and use our prosperity in different ways (military spending, shoring up our financial insitutions, etc). They should serve their jail terms - I'm sure it will not be a pleasant experience for them. I don't believe they will be given new identities in another country. I hope efforts are made to educate and rehabilitate them, and make them aware of the evil nature of their actions, although I fear our prison service in the UK doesn't place this as a high priority.

Oh please!

Don't give me the old 'don't know the difference between right and wrong' argument!

Hang them.

I'm guessing you're a Daily Mail reader. I'd imagine you have no idea of social underclass, drug-fuelled societies, common practice of child abuse. To deny it exists is irresponsible in my view, perpetuates the problem, and therefore contributes to the next Baby P-like death. Will a few hangings cure societies ills, of which this one tragic death is but a single symptom? I think not.

This poor baby died as the result of prolonged abuse. Which was worse, the first time the baby was slammed against the wall, or kicked or whatever, or the one that finally killed? It has been acknowledged the social services system was at fault, the signs of abuse were there and the baby should have been taken into care. They were allowed to behave in this barbaric manner too long, hence the death. They progressed from being abusers to murderers. This could, and should, have been prevented.

I don't read the Daily Fail, no... you are confusing me with Z4.

You stated that these people didn't know right from wrong? Sorry, that is a fatuous argument. How could you survive life without knowing right from wrong...?

How would you managed not to burn yourself, start fights, steal things...? How could you manage to survive to adulthood without knowing?

They knew what they did was wrong - that's why they covered it up... didn't one of them hide when social workers visited? Why did he hide, did he think it was a 'game'? Hide and seek?

They concealed their evil acts because they knew it was wrong.

They are evil, they carried out unimaginable acts of cruelty against a defenceless child.

I'd hang them - I'd be happy to pull the lever. Perhaps others that 'don't know right from wrong' would consider their actions if they understood the consequences.

Most child abusers have themselves been abused when they were children. Therefore, the example they have been set, and experienced, is that child abuse is the norm. That cycle needs to be broken, and that requires much more sophisticated approaches than bringing back capital punishment.

Bullshit I have a friend who was abused as a child and she is the most caring loving mother you could ever wish for so that is just an excuse that some use and get away with using. As Cyprusgrump said it is a guaranteed method. Well said Cyprusgrump I take my hat off to you.

Thanks you!

The problem with Talisker's argument is that everybody that comes before a jury has an excuse for their actions. Should we dismantle the entire justice system and throw the doors of jails open?

Of course not. As you say, there are plenty of people that have the same background and experiences but choose not to steal/rape/abuse, etc.

Of course some individuals can survive child abuse and become model parents. I don't dispute that. However, research shows that most child abusers have themselves been abused earlier in life. This is not the same as saying that anyone who has been abused will become a child abuser, Lioness 2. Cyprusgrump suggested that executions were the way to stop the cycle of child abuse (which happens in some, but not all, cases). I ironically made the case for executing the abused, to prevent them, later in life, becoming the abuser. The irony was to point out the stupidity of expecting all abused children to become abusers, and to ignore the fact that if one waits for the abuser to abuse, and get caught and convicted, the cycle has already has been initiated or maintained because the damage has been done to the child in the next generation.

To say I would open the doors of the prisons is ridiculous. I said quite clearly that these individuals must serve their sentences. However, if society wants to reduce the incidence of child abuse and murder then it must investigate the causes, and take action. Deterrence alone, by threat of execution, will not solve these problems.

[Talisker]

You could be holding it for quite a while as I would imagine it is going to be a novel.

Why use one word when ten will do?

[lioness 2]

You could be holding it for quite a while as I would imagine it is going to be a novel.

Why use one word when ten will do?

So true - have a lovely evening

[cymart]

I was going to come onto the question of social problems,prisons and reform etc etc but you did it for me.
I seem to have upset this lady and think she may be of Turkish Cypriot origin as I used to know quite a few from the area where she comes from in the old days...but that is not important, as I have close freinds from both Cypriot communities anyway-what is worrying is that she still cannot see beyond the gut instinct of revenge which is a very bad base on which to run any society as bad only breeds bad....it is not her right or destination in this life to decide how these culprits should be punished.
I am not going to get into a debate about re-incarnation and karma etc. here as it is going off the main subject and very deep,especially if people do not at least have an open mind about it.Ask any Hindu or Buddhist or some of the many enlightened people who believe in it such as the famous American psychiatrist Brian Weiss whose website can be visited by anyone who is interested.Perhaps this lady and other persons who support her ideas would like to do so and then reflect quietly on what he has to say before continuing this debate...