Cyprus-Forum.com

[halil]

Halil Dayı,

Sence KKTC'de Kuran dersleri zorumlu olmalımıdır?

Shah u are asking me if the Quran courses will be compulsory in TRNC....

I say no .... it will be choice of the individuals. As far as i understand it is like that now .İt is not compulsory .

[shahmaran]

Halil Dayı,

Sence KKTC'de Kuran dersleri zorumlu olmalımıdır?

Shah u are asking me if the Quran courses will be compulsory in TRNC....

I say no .... it will be choice of the individuals. As far as i understand it is like that now .İt is not compulsory .

No, I asked you if you think they should be compulsory?

[Tim Drayton]

I'm pretty sure we also have Church's in use on our side, and some in good condition.

I have 2 Church waiting to be fixed in Lefke if anyone is interested

I also remember a Chapel on the way to Lefke which was around for many years and one day it became a roundabout

Shame really, it was a cute one...

Well, I have travelled quite a bit in the north and the only Orthodox church that I have personally witnessed to be in good condition is Agios Mamas in Morphou - which officially is an 'icon museum'. This church is well hidden away and it took me some time to find it. Venetian heritage has fared better and one can encounter churches from this era in the old part of Famagusta. In terms of protecting the religious heritage left behind by the other community, the south - even if not all mosques have survived here - wins hands down in my book. A casual visitor to the north nowadays sees little visible evidence that many Orthodox Christians once inhabited this space. I do not think this is a mere coincidence - it is part of a slow psychological war of attrition that the Turkish deep state has been waging here for decades to remove all traces of Cypriotness and prepare the way for annexation. Contrast this to the experience of the casual visitor to Limassol who strolls along the western end of St Andrew's Street, one of the main shopping streets, and cannot avoid being reminded of the bicommunal past of this city when they catch sight of the minaret of the Grand Mosque.

[Tim Drayton]

Tim ,
I would like u to read below article and make your comments about it .

http://www.kibrispostasi.com/index.php/ ... ame/KIBRIS

It looks like big war also started by the Turkish Cypriots side about ROC what has happened the islamic heritages which has been left in south Cyprus .

It looks like both sides will have hard times about claims.

It is very sad and I condemn all such attacks on people's cultural heritage. On the other hand, the Grand Mosque in the centre of Limassol is in good condition and is open for worship on a daily basis with a Syrian Imam. There is a second mosque that has a TC imam and is used for worship for Friday and Bayram prayers. I know of a number of other mosques in and around Limassol that are in good condition. So, on this side, not all the news is bad.

Tim ,
in here they are not talking about condition of the mosques . They are talking about how they have been looted . They are questioning what happened to carpets- kilims , hand written qoaran and other symbols in side the mosques. They are claiming that they were all well documented and they have list of the valuable heritages which are all stolen from the mosques.

This is deplorable and I condemn it.

[Tim Drayton]

Alevi's have been struggling for their rights ever since that piece of shit Tayip has come to power.

It is a shame because much as I oppose any belief of this sort, if it had to be one, I would still prefer the Alevi's over the Sunni or the Shia bastards.

I have known a lot of Alevis in Turkey and find them to be very broad minded people. There is a theory that a great many Alevis were exiled to Cyprus in the years immediately following the Ottoman conquest and that they have made a strong contribution towards shaping the character of the Turkish Cypriot people.

Tim ,
here is very interesting news ..... according to Yeni Volkan ;

Neofitos: Turkish Cypriot Teachers must know Turkish Cypriots youths has got rights to learn Quaran .
http://www.volkangazetesi.net/habgoster.asp?id=28934

Volkan says above words are Neofitos words which are published interview in ALİTHİA news paper .

Thats what another religious man thinks .
Too many puzzles goes on around .

A religious leader criticises a teachers' trade union for defending secular values. Now there is news.

What other stories is this fascist rag covering today - Dog bites man in Nicosia?

[shahmaran]

I'm pretty sure we also have Church's in use on our side, and some in good condition.

I have 2 Church waiting to be fixed in Lefke if anyone is interested

I also remember a Chapel on the way to Lefke which was around for many years and one day it became a roundabout

Shame really, it was a cute one...

Well, I have travelled quite a bit in the north and the only Orthodox church that I have personally witnessed to be in good condition is Agios Mamas in Morphou - which officially is an 'icon museum'. This church is well hidden away and it took me some time to find it. Venetian heritage has fared better and one can encounter churches from this era in the old part of Famagusta. In terms of protecting the religious heritage left behind by the other community, the south - even if not all mosques have survived here - wins hands down in my book. A casual visitor to the north nowadays sees little visible evidence that many Orthodox Christians once inhabited this space. I do not think this is a mere coincidence - it is part of a slow psychological war of attrition that the Turkish deep state has been waging here for decades to remove all traces of Cypriotness and prepare the way for annexation. Contrast this to the experience of the casual visitor to Limassol who strolls along the western end of St Andrew's Street, one of the main shopping streets, and cannot avoid being reminded of the bicommunal past of this city when they catch sight of the minaret of the Grand Mosque.

Tim that is absurd.

Basically what you are saying is that "the number of destroyed and still standing Churches or Mosques" decide whether who is worse?

So if there are more Churches destroyed on the North, that means it is a systematic policy to destroy all the evidence that the Christians used to live there, but when there are less Mosques destroyed in the South, that just means they are old?

What kind of twisted logic is that?

First of all to know for sure we need to know the exact number of Mosques and Churches on both sides and the number of how many still actually exist today, and boil it down to a ratio, and then you can say one side has done more damage.

If you have more Churches and you have lost more Churches, when we have a few Mosques and have lost less Mosques that does not mean one side has destroyed more and more importantly it cannot possibly mean that one side actually has a "policy" to do so and the other side does not.

It just means both sides have been destroying each others heritage and you cannot only blame one side while ignoring the doings of your own side.

Plus there is that other Church in Karpaz up and standing.

[Tim Drayton]

I'm pretty sure we also have Church's in use on our side, and some in good condition.

I have 2 Church waiting to be fixed in Lefke if anyone is interested

I also remember a Chapel on the way to Lefke which was around for many years and one day it became a roundabout

Shame really, it was a cute one...

Well, I have travelled quite a bit in the north and the only Orthodox church that I have personally witnessed to be in good condition is Agios Mamas in Morphou - which officially is an 'icon museum'. This church is well hidden away and it took me some time to find it. Venetian heritage has fared better and one can encounter churches from this era in the old part of Famagusta. In terms of protecting the religious heritage left behind by the other community, the south - even if not all mosques have survived here - wins hands down in my book. A casual visitor to the north nowadays sees little visible evidence that many Orthodox Christians once inhabited this space. I do not think this is a mere coincidence - it is part of a slow psychological war of attrition that the Turkish deep state has been waging here for decades to remove all traces of Cypriotness and prepare the way for annexation. Contrast this to the experience of the casual visitor to Limassol who strolls along the western end of St Andrew's Street, one of the main shopping streets, and cannot avoid being reminded of the bicommunal past of this city when they catch sight of the minaret of the Grand Mosque.

Tim that is absurd.

Basically what you are saying is that "the number of destroyed and still standing Churches or Mosques" decide whether who is worse?

So if there are more Churches destroyed on the North, that means it is a systematic policy to destroy all the evidence that the Christians used to live there, but when there are less Mosques destroyed in the South, that just means they are old?

What kind of twisted logic is that?

First of all to know for sure we need to know the exact number of Mosques and Churches on both sides and the number of how many still actually exist today, and boil it down to a ratio, and then you can say one side has done more damage.

If you have more Churches and you have lost more Churches, when we have a few Mosques and have lost less Mosques that does not mean one side has destroyed more and more importantly it cannot possibly mean that one side actually has a "policy" to do so and the other side does not.

It just means both sides have been destroying each others heritage and you cannot only blame one side while ignoring the doings of your own side.

Plus there is that other Church in Karpaz up and standing.

You surprise me as one who has recently said:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=40

“Long term agenda working like a charm, what more can one ask for?!”

By ‘agenda’ I understand that you are speaking of the campaign that the Turkish deep state has been waging in Cyprus since August 1958. (For more information see the article ‘Othello’nun güzel ülkesi Kıbrıs’ by Turkish historian Ayşe Hür published in Taraf on 27.07.2008 http://www.tumgazeteler.com/?a=3942699
)

You clearly support this process, as you are entitled to do. I do not understand why you get on your high horse so much when mention is made of one plank of this campaign, the wilful removal of visible evidence that Orthodox Christians once lived north of the green line in Cyprus.

Trying to be purely objective and based on my own observations as one who has travelled to most parts of the island, I believe, hand on heart, that the TC religious heritage in the south has been better preserved than has GC religious heritage in the north. This is not to say that there has been no destruction of TC heritage in the south. I have made this point before and am surprised at the emotional outburst that it always seems to provoke. I don’t have any axe to grind and I am not trying to support one community over another; this is simply the evidence of my own eyes.

The first time that I visited the southern part of Cyprus was in 2003. I had previously made numerous visits to the north in the 1990’s. My mother, who was living in Cyprus at the time, collected me from Larnaca airport and took me to her house near Limassol. One of the first things that struck me at the time was, while driving along the main motorway you pass some formerly mixed or TC villages in Larnaca province and the mosques in these villages are clearly visible and appear to be in a good state of repair. I know that one of these villages is Deniz’s old village and he says that the mosque in his village has been destroyed. Even so, the point is that somebody arriving in the south is immediately aware that Muslims once lived here. Racking my memory, I cannot think of one former Orthodox church, even one in dilapidated condition, that is visible to the casual observer travelling along one of the main thoroughfares of north Cyprus, say the roads from Nicosia to Morphou, Kyrenia or Famagusta. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will look out for them next time I am there. Yes, as you say, a church is standing out in Karpasia, off the beaten track. I remember how hard it was to find Agios Mamas in Morphou. There are signposts to the ‘icon museum’ in the town centre, but if you follow these signs they eventually peter out before you get there. I have in my possession a map entitled ‘North Cyprus Tourist Map’ which I obtained free of charge from the Tourist Information Office on my first ever visit. It is curious that the only buildings identified as churches on the town plans are former Venetian churches.

Is this all co-incidence? Perhaps. On the other hand, as I have remarked before, if you speak to foreign tourists in the north you will find that most of them have the idea that the Turks have always lived in the north and the Greeks have lived in the south. This is the impression that any causal visitor who is not actively searching out GC heritage will easily gain. It is only a short logical step from here for them to say, “Well, the GCs and TCs have never got along, so why not let them just go their separate ways?’ Is this not one small victory in the propaganda war that is being fought? Is this not part of what you (rightly) describe as the ‘long term agenda working like a charm’? If so, I cannot understand your righteous indignation when somebody points this out.

[YFred]

Alevi's have been struggling for their rights ever since that piece of shit Tayip has come to power.

It is a shame because much as I oppose any belief of this sort, if it had to be one, I would still prefer the Alevi's over the Sunni or the Shia bastards.

I have known a lot of Alevis in Turkey and find them to be very broad minded people. There is a theory that a great many Alevis were exiled to Cyprus in the years immediately following the Ottoman conquest and that they have made a strong contribution towards shaping the character of the Turkish Cypriot people.

Tim ,
here is very interesting news ..... according to Yeni Volkan ;

Neofitos: Turkish Cypriot Teachers must know Turkish Cypriots youths has got rights to learn Quaran .
http://www.volkangazetesi.net/habgoster.asp?id=28934

Volkan says above words are Neofitos words which are published interview in ALİTHİA news paper .

Thats what another religious man thinks .
Too many puzzles goes on around .

A religious leader criticises a teachers' trade union for defending secular values. Now there is news.

What other stories is this fascist rag covering today - Dog bites man in Nicosia?

I think you'll find it was reported as Greek dog bites Turkish man in Nicosia!

[Tim Drayton]

Alevi's have been struggling for their rights ever since that piece of shit Tayip has come to power.

It is a shame because much as I oppose any belief of this sort, if it had to be one, I would still prefer the Alevi's over the Sunni or the Shia bastards.

I have known a lot of Alevis in Turkey and find them to be very broad minded people. There is a theory that a great many Alevis were exiled to Cyprus in the years immediately following the Ottoman conquest and that they have made a strong contribution towards shaping the character of the Turkish Cypriot people.

Tim ,
here is very interesting news ..... according to Yeni Volkan ;

Neofitos: Turkish Cypriot Teachers must know Turkish Cypriots youths has got rights to learn Quaran .
http://www.volkangazetesi.net/habgoster.asp?id=28934

Volkan says above words are Neofitos words which are published interview in ALİTHİA news paper .

Thats what another religious man thinks .
Too many puzzles goes on around .

A religious leader criticises a teachers' trade union for defending secular values. Now there is news.

What other stories is this fascist rag covering today - Dog bites man in Nicosia?

I think you'll find it was reported as Greek dog bites Turkish man in Nicosia!

Kicking myself for missing that one! Brilliant.

[umit07]

Shit I just logged onto their site (didn't know they had one), just noticed that one of my uncles (fathers brother) writes for them.