Cyprus-Forum.com

[Main_Source]

So does that mean that the education system of countless countries across the world who were once British colonies, are wrong?...Are many Cypriots alone in the world in thinking that being under colonial rule was a bad thing?

To say that if you think British colonial rule is a bad thing then you must have been subject to false propaganda is quite typical British inferiorty complex character trait, dont you think?

[metecyp]

How do you see this thing been materialised, from a logical and practical aspect?

* Where and how the TCs will exercise (vote) their political rights?
* Which authority will construct the voter’s list, organize the elections, supervise the process, and count the results?
* How many TCs should turn up in order for these elections to constitute a true representation of the TC community?
* What will be the role of those presumably elected and what their relationship Vs the "TRNC" and the Turkish occupation will be?
* What will happen if one morning the Turkish army or the TRNC police refuse to allow them to cross south and participate in the parliament or in the ministerial council? Wouldn't that mean that the RoC would become incapable to function?
* What if when the ministerial council resumes in order to discuss some policy measures against some issue in relation to the Cyprus problem or the "TRNC," like the issue of direct trading for example, and the TC vice president vetoes everything?
* Can any TC elected MP or appointed minister of the RoC, assume at the same time to be a citizen and perhaps a political figure of the "TRNC" and at the same time a member of the RoC government or parliament, while the RoC considers the "TRNC" an illegal break away state?

Kifeas, I could try to address your points but that would not be too useful. I think you're pointing out the TC representation in the RoC at the moment is not only illogical but impractical as well, and you might be right. My question is though as follows: Why does your side insist on representing TCs when both TCs and GCs are aware that it is neither logical nor practical to do so in the current scenario? And please don't tell me that the impracticality and illogicality of TC representation in the RoC is due to Turkish invasion. Even if the Turkish army leaves today, TC return to the RoC is still problematic without first solving our traditional problems.

[Bananiot]

Typical reaction by the reactionaries. Instead of dwelling on the issue (ie Lyssarides's fanatical approach towards the TC's) they question my motive for giving out this bit of information. If you get some time to read through the minutes of some of Parliaments sessions during the first three years of the RoC then you wouldn't need me to inform you about it. You wouldn't need me to tell you about the shouts of "sit down re" by the GC MP's, everytime Dr Kutsuk tried to utter some words.

I never thought Piratis will become a big liar. I said I would a hundred times prefer the British rule rather than the sorry affair of today with Cyprus heading to total disaster. Of course I forgot that some of us prefer partition as the next best solution to a united (Greek) Cyprus. Have no fear, you will get your partition, sooner than later. Your beloved leadership is working overtime for this.

[Othellos]

If you get some time to read through the minutes of some of Parliaments sessions during the first three years of the RoC then you wouldn't need me to inform you about it. You wouldn't need me to tell you about the shouts of "sit down re" by the GC MP's, everytime Dr Kutsuk tried to utter some words.

Where can one find detailed information about these minutes, Bananiot?

O.

[Kifeas]

My question is though as follows: Why does your side insist on representing TCs when both TCs and GCs are aware that it is neither logical nor practical to do so in the current scenario? And please don't tell me that the impracticality and illogicality of TC representation in the RoC is due to Turkish invasion. Even if the Turkish army leaves today, TC return to the RoC is still problematic without first solving our traditional problems.

It is not a matter of insisting on something or not. The facts are there for everyone to examine and judge upon. As far as the letter of national and international law is concerned, the RoC is the state (government) that represents all the people of Cyprus, GCs and TCs alike. The same goes for the entire territory of Cyprus. Equally true is the fact that from a political and democratic principle’s perspective, the RoC does not represent the TCs. These are the realities, irrespective of what are the causes and whose fault it is.

Your question as to why my side insists on representing the TCs can be answered with another question. What do you want us to do? What would you do, assuming you were the president of the RoC and the leader of the GC community? Declare publicly and internationally that the RoC doesn’t represent the TCs, both legally and politically? Declare the RoC a GC state and recognise the “boarder” and “TRNC” as the rightful representative of the TCs? Close the checkpoints; declare invalid all the RoC passports and i.d.’s that were issued to TCs and request a visa from anyone wishing to cross south? Is there anything else you would like to happen?

All the above are some of things that the RoC could do in order to prove that it doesn’t represent you and at the same time facilitate your way towards international recognition of the “TRNC” and permanent division. If this is what you are asking (I hope not,) then say it!

[cannedmoose]

To say that if you think British colonial rule is a bad thing then you must have been subject to false propaganda is quite typical British inferiorty complex character trait, dont you think?

No, you have slightly distorted what I wrote, missing out the point that I stated in which I said that the colonial period was not a golden age by any means. I also have no inferiority complex about Britain's imperial role anywhere around the world. I recognise both its faults and its achievements, unlike the many 1960s revisionists who have sought to portray empire as invariably terrible - of which the Cypriot education system is a product through its insistance that it was a terrible age in which the country was repressed, barbarised and the legitimate views of the people not considered.

I'm sorry, but this just wasn't the case. Many wrongs were made, but on the whole the British period of rule was the most enlightened in the entire history of Cyprus to that point. Look at previous rulers, the Ottomans, Venetians, Genovese, Lusignans etc. etc. etc. Not the nicest group of comparitors I agree, but the British period provided Cypriots with forms of political representation, developed the woeful infrastructure that had decayed throughout the Ottoman period and broke the stranglehold of the bishops over society - in other words, it was the dawn of modernisation on the island.

While in the end, the British did manipulate GC and TC opinion - as did the leaders of the so-called motherlands - to blame them entirely (as many hardline GC nationalists seek to do) for the demise of the mythical bicommunal utopia is indicative of a childish inability to recognise and attone for one's own actions. The only people that one can blame for the violence perpetrated against both communities are those who released the safety catch (British, Greece, Turkey), cocked their pistols (GC and TC) and fired (GC and TC again). In other words, everyone involved in Cyprus shares equal responsibilities for their actions - there are no great villains and there are no great heroes, it's a mess and one that has to be sorted out. Until the day that Cypriots of both communities recognise that, Cyprus will never truly be a 'grown-up' state in the same way as South Africa grew up in the early 1990s.

[Bananiot]

The only people that one can blame for the violence perpetrated against both communities are those who released the safety catch (British, Greece, Turkey), cocked their pistols (GC and TC) and fired (GC and TC again). In other words, everyone involved in Cyprus shares equal responsibilities for their actions - there are no great villains and there are no great heroes, it's a mess and one that has to be sorted out. Until the day that Cypriots of both communities recognise that, Cyprus will never truly be a 'grown-up' state in the same way as South Africa grew up in the early 1990s.

Thank you cannedmoose

[Kifeas]

The only people that one can blame for the violence perpetrated against both communities are those who released the safety catch (British, Greece, Turkey), cocked their pistols (GC and TC) and fired (GC and TC again). In other words, everyone involved in Cyprus shares equal responsibilities for their actions - there are no great villains and there are no great heroes, it's a mess and one that has to be sorted out. Until the day that Cypriots of both communities recognise that, Cyprus will never truly be a 'grown-up' state in the same way as South Africa grew up in the early 1990s.

Thank you cannedmoose

Thank you cannedmouse! As if he made the biggest discovery of the century!

[cannedmoose]

Thank you cannedmouse! As if he made the biggest discovery of the century!

At least I actually thought about the situation rather than simply spilling the tried and tested propaganda... which tends to be what you're all about Kifeas. (it's so nice to be disagreeing with you again, makes me think I'm in about the right place when it comes to thoughts on the Cyprus issue)

P.S. If you think that thing to the left is a mouse, you must be living in an even weirder world than I thought

[MicAtCyp]

His target is RoC.

You are absolutely right. Reviewing my database right now.
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Typical reaction by the reactionaries. Instead of dwelling on the issue (ie Lyssarides's fanatical approach towards the TC's).....

Hey Banam, one of the reactionaries similar to the reactionaries of the ex-communist regimes i.e myself answered your question.Do you have anything to say other than your usual rhetoric monologues?

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Why does your side insist on representing TCs when both TCs and GCs are aware that it is neither logical nor practical to do so in the current scenario? And please don't tell me that the impracticality and illogicality of TC representation in the RoC is due to Turkish invasion. Even if the Turkish army leaves today, TC return to the RoC is still problematic without first solving our traditional problems.

Metecyp, Kifeas already answered you but I will try to add something to that. Your argument that "the GCs don't represent us" is a direct quotation from Denktash’es sophistries by forgetting a major part of the story. So is this statement right or wrong?

When we say a political entity represents us this means it represents our interests and our rights assuming we also honour our obligations to it. Correct?

When the Tcs abandoned the RoC they automatically abandoned their own representation through the RoC. Does this mean their representation becomes void? The answer is no, it just becomes inactive unless all parties concerned agree otherwise.

So if the representation of your ownselves through the RoC is currently inactive then who represents you? Lets see:You took by force the homes,lands and properties of 180,000 GC whose interests are already represented by RoC declared that area your "trnc" and come to say that this entity represents you! It represents what, stolen interests?Interests that already belong to other people? How can it represent you when the interests of 180,000 GCs who are represented already by RoC are in there?

To make a long story short, you are actually not represented by anybody, nor can you claim that the "trnc" represents you. Some of your interests (e.g your properties) are taken care/represented by the GC Ministers of the RoC under the law of necessity and thats it!

It's because of this that you cannot have any MPs in EU Parliament, any footbal teams in Eufa, as well as many other priviledges someone who is represented by a legal state can have.