Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

shahmaran, I wouldn't have a problem with your "nativity" approach if I didn't know that you want to use it to excuse things like ethnic cleansing with "logic" like "Hey, the came to Cyprus 'just' 3500 years ago. That means it is OK to refuse to them their human and democratic rights, ethnically cleanse them and replace them with Turks". This is truly a Hitler like mentality.

Also I disagree with you about the genetics part. Here we are not talking about the human kind, which evolved in Africa more than 200.000 years ago and spread all over the world. Here we are talking about ethnic groups. The ethnic groups which exist today were created in the last 5000 years or so. What is common in ethnic groups is things like language, religion, culture and a common identity, not necessarily the DNA. They don't make you a DNA test to determine to which ethnic group you belong. The DNA differences between people are minuscule and they do not determine the culture, language, religion or anything else related with ethnicity.

[Oracle]

The notion of "nativity" is seriously open for discussion, specially in places around Europe and I assure you it will not turn out the way you woul like it to.

The notion of "nativity" does not even begin to apply to the TCs (<11%) since there is and has always been (recorded by Brits, Italians, French historians + others) a majority (>82%) of another, indisputably, true native group (GCs) who have been recorded (despite your recent attempts to change this) in books, facts, stones, corpus as being the inhabitants who have inherited this land for thousands of years.

What is more, the TCs have blown any possible vestiges of appeal to being 'native' by bringing in their recent root-brothers the bloody Turks! You've blown it big time (100%) foreigner!

Personally I don't have a problem with TCs calling themselves native Cypriots. The Greeks in Turkey are also native of that territory, this doesn't mean their minority is special in some way and should be granted 50% of power and 30% of Turkey.

At the end of the day what matters in a modern state is the citizenship. Once you are a citizen you are equal with all other citizens and you should have the same rights, the same responsibilities, and your one vote in every election, like all other citizens.

But you are right that with the importation of so many Settlers the TCs run the risk of being assimilated into mainland Turks and loose their distinctive Cypriot identity. If the settlers were few, then maybe they could be assimilated and gradually become TCs. However it seems that the opposite is going to happen since the settlers are now the majority in the occupied areas. Talat even started to refer to the population there as "trnc people" instead of Cypriots. If this continues for some longer I don't think that they will be able to claim "nativity" since the vast majority of their population would have moved to Cyprus just a few decades earlier.

I believe also that "nativity" does not have to enter into politics or any constitutional clauses for government of a country. I am not comfortable with 'cultural exemptions' overriding Human Rights.

Cultural identity, historically linked to territory (environment), is of course of paramount interest for the character and spirit of humankind, which if accepted in a mature way can enrich us all.

Here shahmaran prostitutes the notion of "nativity" to substantiate their "minority" community rights which they have used to demand more Human Rights than any other individual is entitled to.

[shahmaran]

shahmaran, I wouldn't have a problem with your "nativity" approach if I didn't know that you want to use it to excuse things like ethnic cleansing with "logic" like "Hey, the came to Cyprus 'just' 3500 years ago. That means it is OK to refuse to them their human and democratic rights, ethnically cleanse them and replace them with Turks". This is truly a Hitler like mentality.

Also I disagree with you about the genetics part. Here we are not talking about the human kind, which evolved in Africa more than 200.000 years ago and spread all over the world. Here we are talking about ethnic groups. The ethnic groups which exist today were created in the last 5000 years or so. What is common in ethnic groups is things like language, religion, culture and a common identity, not necessarily the DNA. They don't make you a DNA test to determine to which ethnic group you belong. The DNA differences between people are minuscule and they do not determine the culture, language, religion or anything else related with ethnicity.

I have no business with nativity, if you ask me I think nations are just as crap but hey, what do I know...

Again you are defining things which cannot possibly be defined in such a way.

Ethnic groups did not suddenly "start" in the last 5000 years, this is a continuous process and everything we see today is a manifestation of the past and this is how it will continue, through constant transformation.

The entire Hellenic history is a drop in the ocean of human history, so no you are not "indigenous"!

[Oracle]

Of course Shahmaran will pretend to fail to appreciate the importance of a "recordable" history identifying ethnic group development.

(Despite their prime objective being to rewrite the history of Cyprus ...)

[Nikitas]

"so no you are not "indigenous"!

An ingenious way to give Turks the excuse of displacing anyone they feel like displacing. By this definition no one is indigenous, everyone is transient, so the invader is always right. No wonder the Turks do not have friendly neighbors anywhere in the periphery of Turkey and they place so much emphasis on military might. Their only legitimacy to title is their ability to hold on to it by force.

[runaway]

" No wonder the Turks do not have friendly neighbors anywhere in the periphery of Turkey

Nikitas you need another maths lesson :

Türkiye' neighbours: Bulgaria,Greece,Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan,Iran,Syria,Iraq. We've got problems with Greece and Armenia only. (25%)

Greece's neighbours:
Albania,Bulgaria,Macedonia,Türkiye. Problems with everyone except Bulgaria. That makes 75%

To make things simple for you: 75% > 25%

Think before you write.

[YFred]

" No wonder the Turks do not have friendly neighbors anywhere in the periphery of Turkey

Nikitas you need another maths lesson :

Türkiye' neighbours: Bulgaria,Greece,Georgia,Armenia,Azerbaijan,Iran,Syria,Iraq. We've got problems with Greece and Armenia only. (25%)

Greece's neighbours:
Albania,Bulgaria,Macedonia,Türkiye. Problems with everyone except Bulgaria. That makes 75%

To make things simple for you: 75% > 25%

Think before you write.

Give him a break, Maths is not their strong point because there is no connection between ancient 300 Greeks and current ones.

[shahmaran]

"so no you are not "indigenous"!

An ingenious way to give Turks the excuse of displacing anyone they feel like displacing. By this definition no one is indigenous, everyone is transient, so the invader is always right. No wonder the Turks do not have friendly neighbors anywhere in the periphery of Turkey and they place so much emphasis on military might. Their only legitimacy to title is their ability to hold on to it by force.

Nikitas all I am saying is the "indigenous" argument cannot be used as it is a very VERY shady area.

I did not mention Greeks or Turks.

The reason for the invasion is well and truly documented no need to rediscover America is there, it has nothing to do with "indigenousness".

[shahmaran]

(Despite their prime objective being to rewrite the history of Cyprus ...)

So says the lady who claims to be "native"

This is has gotta be the funniest argument to ever come on this forum!

So when did you exactly switch from the "hunter gatherer" society, into an overpriced, fascist and murdering "democracy"?!

[Piratis]

Sharaman, the Greeks created one of the first civilizations. Here we are not talking about the human species (we are all the same from a DNA point of view) but about ethnic groups, their culture, language and civilization in general, which is what makes somebody being Greek, French, Turkish etc.

An ingenious way to give Turks the excuse of displacing anyone they feel like displacing.

A cheap excuse actually. If we go by his theory then humans are only native to the specific area in Africa were they evolved. He thinks that by removing the "nativeness" from the local people it will give to them the right for crimes like ethnic cleansing and bringing Turkish Settlers to our island. But as I said that is a very cheap excuse that nobody will ever accept.