Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

So basically what you are saying is that there were no Turks living in Cyprus in 1911, when they had conquered the place 400 or so years before?

The map is even capable of showing the minute ethnic presences in places like Crete, but not a single sign of Turks in Cyprus?

What did they just disappear and re-appear in the 50s?

You have a very bad habit of providing faulty documents and delusional "interpretations" of your cyber junk, Piratis

[shahmaran]

Let us also look at it from this perspective;

1928 census: 18,773 citizens self-identifying as "Albanophone", including other Albanian-origin communities of Greeks

It is 17 years after what that map depicts and their numbers are 18,000.

So 18,000 people are shown on that map with color codes, but they can't find 18,000 Turk's to add some pink on to Cyprus?!

Does that make sense to you?

I know for a fact my family was there back in those years, why are they not on that map or are shown as Greek?

[Piratis]

shahmaran, when I said that Cyprus is a Greek island you said that I was the only one who thought so. The map was just one example to the contrary. If you make a search at Google Books you will find many books describing Cyprus as a Greek island, especially books printed before 1960.

So my aim was not to show that there were no Turks in Cyprus, but to show that Cyprus was indeed thought as a Greek island, and actually more Greek than some other territories which are currently part of the Greek Republic.

The map shows the majority of people at each territory. It doesn't mean that in a territory colored blue every single person is Greek. It just means the majority are Greeks. The TCs (especially before 1950s) were all over Cyprus. While some villages could be GC or TC only, there were no large territories of Cyprus with TC majority. That is why no part Cyprus is colored as Turkish.

About Crete, this should explain it:

By the last Ottoman census in 1881, Christians were 76% of the population, and Muslims (usually called "Turks" regardless of language, culture, and ancestry) only 24%. Christians were over 60% of the population in 19/23 of the districts of Crete, but Muslims were over 60% in the three large towns on the north coast, and in Monofatsi

The 3 Turkish colored areas in Crete must be these 3 large towns where the Turks were the majority. In Cyprus only in some small villages spread all over Cyprus the TCs have been the majority. In all 6 towns of Cyprus GCs have been the majority.

Do you think the one who made the map had an intention to be unjust specifically to the TCs? This is just one map by the way. Similar maps of that time show the same thing. Here is one from 1923: http://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg

[shahmaran]

Piratis, the colors in Crete are for Armenians.

The map claims that the Turks only exist in what we call Turkey today and some in Bulgaria.

Which is funny considering the fact that they are talking about the heart of the Ottoman Empire.

On the contrary to what you say, I think the map does try to do a very meticulous job in depicting every tiny bit of ethnic group scattered around the Ottoman Empire, even for the 18,000 Albanians around Athens.

So why can we not find any Turks living anywhere other than Bulgaria and Turkey, within their own empire?

We know they also existed in Greece as well as Cyprus.

Leave that to a side, why can't we see Armenians in Cyprus?

What do you think is more accurate, historical facts or the map of some old American ex-naval officer?

This map is far from correct.

If you have other maps showing how "Greek" Cyprus is then lets see...

[denizaksulu]

Enosis was not your right, get over it!

And why Enosis was not a right of the Cypriot people? The UN Resolution about decolonization clearly defines "integration into an independent State" as one of the three "legitimate options of full self-government. ".
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

How could it be OK for Cyprus to be under Ottoman or British rule against the will of the Cypriot people and with Cypriots mere subjects of those empires, but not OK for Cyprus to be part of a Republic were Cypriots democratically chose to belong and were Cypriots would be equal citizens?

Uniting Cyprus with the rest of Greece was our right, and it would violate none of your human or any other rights.

Rhodes, which also has a Turkish minority, united with Greece in 1947. The wish of the Rhodian people was accepted, and there was no conflicts and no problems.

If it is your right then so it is ours! Is that OK with you?

What was your right? To attack and kill Greek Cypriots? To perform ethnic cleansing? To collaborate with the Colonialists to impose your will on the Cypriot people?

While our dear friend Piratis is OFF topic as usual, I will add this little snippet I translated from a newspaper article while on holiday in Cornwall. Since he mentioned Rhodes I think it as a good opportunity to calm the mood(sic!) In this article one may see why we want to survive as Turkish Cypriots. We have a moral right to do so and the 'majority' should respect that right, right?


The Mevlana Coffee-shop in the city of Rhodes/Rodos

I am walking along the historic Streets of Rhodes on a warm day in June.

There is a light breeze (meltemi) from the sea. While walking through this historic town, I suddenly came accross a coffee-shop (Kafenion) - with its old ricketty tables and chairs plus 'authentic' decor.
It is the 'Mevlana Coffee House'. The location had the mystic air of old Anatolian coffee-shops.
CD's of Yunus Emre, Mevlana, apple flavoured narghile, backgammon/tavli/tavla on the 'menu'.
A white haired gentleman with a smiling face approaches me. Ali Memish. He greets me with 'Merhaba' with his sincere smile. He begins his narrative after bringing us our 'medium sweet' Turkish Coffees.
The 70 year old Ali Memish and his wife Ilten Hanim are struggling to 'stay on their feet' [survive] in these historic streets of Rhodes. 'Seven generations and we never emigrated anywhere.. We stayed put'. 'After the events in Cyprus (1974) there was a bit of tension, but we could never leave this place. In the past we had more Turkish customers, but gradually their numbers went down'.
There are nearly 3,500 Turks living on this island. Ali Memis Kapudanaki is one of these. It is said that his father was a famous sea Captain.; it is because of this he was given the Greek surname of 'Kapoudanaki' - which means 'Captain' in Greek.
I asked Ali Memish about his relationship with his neighbours. 'I sell Turkish coffee and Narghileh. I have very few Greek customers' he replies. 'Even though, not done openly, I am under pressure to sell my business premises.'
Uncle Ali also complains that nothing Turkish is taught in schools. 'I am fearful for our children and their culture which is becoming more 'Hellenised''.
He continues,' we want to open a 'Turkish school', but other Turks are not as sensitive [as me].'
Our children go to Greek schools, mixing with their children and their youth and becoming friends. When we greet them with 'Gunaydin' they reply with 'Kalimera'.
'I am afraid that our culture will be lost.............'

I translated this little snippet from Toplum Postasi dated 30th July 2009.


And Piratis, dont show me that video of RRD again otherwise I will tell you a story by Nasreddin Hodja.

[shahmaran]

I put 10 Euros on,

"well they invaded that island 500 years ago so if they don't like it then they are welcome to leave because they are not the indigenous people"

Followed by THE video

[YFred]

I put 10 Euros on,

"well they invaded that island 500 years ago so if they don't like it then they are welcome to leave because they are not the indigenous people"

Followed by THE video

I'll second that, but mine is a sportsman's bet, as I can't bet money on account of my religion.

[denizaksulu]

This photograph, by a Turkish photoreporter, proves what I always suspected: there was a deliberate policy by the Turkish army to excute prisoners as part of a wider campaign to terrorise and therefore expel the GCs from northern Cyprus. It was the first deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing in the west, and a precursor of the campaigns of Yugoslavia.

The irony is that in the photo, obviously posed for propaganda, a Turkish soldier offers cigarettes to the prisoners of war, then they shot them, but that part is not photographed.

This latest discovery comes as the most direct corroboration of the reports of the Times in late August and September 1974.

These bums want the world to believe they are the best army in NATO!

I suppose that is why the Atlilar, Sandallar, and Muratağa massacres took place.

What was the reason behind the GC's executing hundreds of civilians who were not even fighters?

Please tell me as I am dying to know.

I don't know...Perhaps it had something to with the Turkish Invasion, and that is not to excuse the appalling crime committed by some fanatical EOKA B lunatic warriors...

But those attacks had nothing to do with the CNG who were busy defending their country and whose honour remains intact.

Perhaps, you could do the right thing and condemn the crimes committed against these 5 CNG POWs and blast Gabira at the same time...it would really mean a lot to me...

Are you ready to condemn this War Crime like I condemn the cowardly acts of EOKA B?

Gabira is well out of order. I will not make any excuses for his posts on this matter. We must deplore any such acts of barbarity whoever commits them. Anyone who supports and defends such actions sould hang their heads in shame. Having been away for a while I have yet to finish reading the thread, butI sure hope I do not come accross anymore rubbish from anyone.

Thank you Deniz!

I hope you had a nice holiday. Welcome back.

Hi Bafidis, Thanks. Any news from down under? ....and I am not talking Haemorhoids.

[YFred]

This photograph, by a Turkish photoreporter, proves what I always suspected: there was a deliberate policy by the Turkish army to excute prisoners as part of a wider campaign to terrorise and therefore expel the GCs from northern Cyprus. It was the first deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing in the west, and a precursor of the campaigns of Yugoslavia.

The irony is that in the photo, obviously posed for propaganda, a Turkish soldier offers cigarettes to the prisoners of war, then they shot them, but that part is not photographed.

This latest discovery comes as the most direct corroboration of the reports of the Times in late August and September 1974.

These bums want the world to believe they are the best army in NATO!

I suppose that is why the Atlilar, Sandallar, and Muratağa massacres took place.

What was the reason behind the GC's executing hundreds of civilians who were not even fighters?

Please tell me as I am dying to know.

I don't know...Perhaps it had something to with the Turkish Invasion, and that is not to excuse the appalling crime committed by some fanatical EOKA B lunatic warriors...

But those attacks had nothing to do with the CNG who were busy defending their country and whose honour remains intact.

Perhaps, you could do the right thing and condemn the crimes committed against these 5 CNG POWs and blast Gabira at the same time...it would really mean a lot to me...

Are you ready to condemn this War Crime like I condemn the cowardly acts of EOKA B?

Gabira is well out of order. I will not make any excuses for his posts on this matter. We must deplore any such acts of barbarity whoever commits them. Anyone who supports and defends such actions sould hang their heads in shame. Having been away for a while I have yet to finish reading the thread, butI sure hope I do not come accross anymore rubbish from anyone.

Thank you Deniz!

I hope you had a nice holiday. Welcome back.

Hi Bafidis, Thanks. Any news from down under? ....and I am not talking Haemorhoids.

Having condemned such actions by the Turkish Army, It turns out that these GC soldiers (NG) were themselves involved in TC ethnic cleansing on the same day, killing innocent Civilians. Consequently when they were handed over to the locals and of course they would be reprisals.

[denizaksulu]

This photograph, by a Turkish photoreporter, proves what I always suspected: there was a deliberate policy by the Turkish army to excute prisoners as part of a wider campaign to terrorise and therefore expel the GCs from northern Cyprus. It was the first deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing in the west, and a precursor of the campaigns of Yugoslavia.

The irony is that in the photo, obviously posed for propaganda, a Turkish soldier offers cigarettes to the prisoners of war, then they shot them, but that part is not photographed.

This latest discovery comes as the most direct corroboration of the reports of the Times in late August and September 1974.

These bums want the world to believe they are the best army in NATO!

I suppose that is why the Atlilar, Sandallar, and Muratağa massacres took place.

What was the reason behind the GC's executing hundreds of civilians who were not even fighters?

Please tell me as I am dying to know.

I don't know...Perhaps it had something to with the Turkish Invasion, and that is not to excuse the appalling crime committed by some fanatical EOKA B lunatic warriors...

But those attacks had nothing to do with the CNG who were busy defending their country and whose honour remains intact.

Perhaps, you could do the right thing and condemn the crimes committed against these 5 CNG POWs and blast Gabira at the same time...it would really mean a lot to me...

Are you ready to condemn this War Crime like I condemn the cowardly acts of EOKA B?

Gabira is well out of order. I will not make any excuses for his posts on this matter. We must deplore any such acts of barbarity whoever commits them. Anyone who supports and defends such actions sould hang their heads in shame. Having been away for a while I have yet to finish reading the thread, butI sure hope I do not come accross anymore rubbish from anyone.

Thank you Deniz!

I hope you had a nice holiday. Welcome back.

Hi Bafidis, Thanks. Any news from down under? ....and I am not talking Haemorhoids.

Having condemned such actions by the Turkish Army, It turns out that these GC soldiers (NG) were themselves involved in TC ethnic cleansing on the same day, killing innocent Civilians. Consequently when they were handed over to the locals and of course they would be reprisals.

I hear what you are saying Yfred, but summmry execution? If there were reliable witness accounts who could point fingers, couldnt they be put on trial? I too have heard that some NG were executed for certain crimes. Now that would have been a great 'propaganda coup'. Instead this happens. Revenge for this and revenge for that!! Where does it end? Damn war.!!!