Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Even sadder fact is that Varosha would have been given back many times but had been refused by GC politicians every time.

Sad is when some Turkish Cypriots think they’re smart!

The ENTIRE territory of Cyprus belongs to the RoC, not just what you think.

Considering RoC has been hijacked by the GCs since 1963, you are living in dreamland if you really believe that RoC in its current state owns the whole of Cyprus. If you guys don't wise up, I am afraid it will remain as it is.

I guess we can add this word to the concise TC dictionary…

Hijack: When 30% of the House of Reps abandon their posts to pursue Enosis with Turkey, and life goes on for the rest.

After what we know about the Akritas plan, you can say that with a straight face, congratulations. You have made it to the comedy circuit.

LEts see, which of the 2 should we be most pissed off about. A fictional plan that stayed on paper? Or a 40,000 strong millitary invasion by a NATO army that killed 1000's and displaced 1/3 of the population of this island by kicking them out of their homes....idiot

Comedian No 2?

On the anniversary of the 2nd invasion when your murderous hordes advanced and murdered I see nothing funny you scumbag.

It does't stop you from being a comedian now, especially if you propegate the idea that the Akritas plan stayed on paper. Or are you just a 2-dimentional person?

Tell me about your genocide scumbag.

I thank the TAF for taking out one of your mechanised units who lined up outside Goshi to flatten Lurucina with 4000 people in it. It was what you would call a prospective genocide with living witness. One witness works opposite Halil, ask your pal to confirm it if you don't believe me old boy.

[Nikitas]

Cymart is right, Famagusta needs a total rebuild, everything including utilities grids has to be built from scratch.

It is the largest civil engineering project Cyprus will ever see and worth an estimated FIVE BILLION Euro.

It is an enticing carrot for TC businessmen who would want to participate in the project which will be financed by the victims of the crime, ie the citizens of Famagusta who were kept out of their town for 35 years. One way to get back at this petty thieving mentality would be to refuse participation to anyone other than genuine Famagusta contractors, architects and builders.

[Othellos]

It is an enticing carrot for TC businessmen who would want to participate in the project which will be financed by the victims of the crime, ie the citizens of Famagusta who were kept out of their town for 35 years. One way to get back at this petty thieving mentality would be to refuse participation to anyone other than genuine Famagusta contractors, architects and builders.

Any thoughts to exclude TC's from participating in the revitalization / reconstruction of Famagusta when that time arrives are wrong in my opinion for the following 2 reasons:

a) Famagusta is a huge opportunity for both GC's and TC's to learn how to work together & constructively for a change, like they should have been doing since the 1960's. The benefits from a project like this can be tremendous for the town, its people and even all Cyprus.

b) It is in the best interest of all that the different "parts" of Famagusta (Varosha, Old Town etc) eventually develop and funtion as one urban entity and in order for this to happen everyone will have to cooperate and do their fair part.

Other than that, I agree that the inhabitants of Famagusta who remain for the last 35 years in forced exile, should have the ultimate "say" in the way their town will be "brought back to life". Being from Famagusta myself I remain 100% against tearing down everything and redesigning / rebuilding the town from scratch.

[Viewpoint]

It is an enticing carrot for TC businessmen who would want to participate in the project which will be financed by the victims of the crime, ie the citizens of Famagusta who were kept out of their town for 35 years. One way to get back at this petty thieving mentality would be to refuse participation to anyone other than genuine Famagusta contractors, architects and builders.

Any thoughts to exclude TC's from participating in the revitalization / reconstruction of Famagusta when that time arrives are wrong in my opinion for the following 2 reasons:

a) Famagusta is a huge opportunity for both GC's and TC's to learn how to work together & constructively for a change, like they should have been doing since the 1960's. The benefits from a project like this can be tremendous for the town, its people and even all Cyprus.

b) It is in the best interest of all that the different "parts" of Famagusta (Varosha, Old Town etc) eventually develop and funtion as one urban entity and in order for this to happen everyone will have to cooperate and do their fair part.

Other than that, I agree that the inhabitants of Famagusta who remain for the last 35 years in forced exile, should have the ultimate "say" in the way their town will be "brought back to life". Being from Famagusta myself I remain 100% against tearing down everything and redesigning / rebuilding the town from scratch.

With GC mindset they will try to find a way to exclude us we are full aware of that thats why when returning Maraş special conditions will have to put in place to make sure they are not allowed to take such measures and if found to do so they should be punished, Gcs need lots of deterrants and if its going to effect them financially as they are very very materialistic they will behave

[Nikitas]

This for both Othello and VP,

In a biregional federal system it will be well defined who is in charge of what. And as Talat has often pointed out the principle of biregionality is superior to the principle of bicommunality.

THerefore, if the people of Famagusta want to rebuild, not rebuild, or do anythign else with their town is their problem.

Considering that the payment of the rebuilding will be borne in its entirety by the inhabitants of Famagusta, via loans from GC banks, that is even more reason to insist that those that profit from the rebuilding will be based, hence taxed, in the GC region and some of the money returned to those bearing the cost. That is unless Turkey and the TCs want to pay for the damage caused to a city kept closed for 35 years.

A note for Othello- steel reinforced concrete building left exposed to the elements for 35 years are not repairable. Corrosion enters the steel reinforcement and weakens the structures from the inside. It is cheaper to rebuild than repair.

Rebuilding would also be an opportunity to mend the huge mistakes of the past, like the allowing of building multistory hotels along the seafront, thus depriving the town of visual access to the sea.

Naturally we are Cypriots, and I do not hold much hope for a consensual plan being worked out. The owners of seafront property will insist on rebuilding their hotels in the name of development and all that crap. And if we allow this we will have lost a unique opportunity to build a truly magnificent town that will be among the most bautiful in the Mediterranean.

As for a joint development scheme which will include the old walled city, just remember how things were before 1974. There was no common ground with the people in the walled city. It was forbidden to us, since the 50s, and few TCs who had businesses outside the walls were concntrated around the TC college building near the hospital. What makes you think they will want things done differently now?

[Othellos]

Thank you both, Viewpoint & Nikitas for posting your genuine views on Famagusta, even though these are imo another "recipe" for getting absolutely nowhere.

A few additional points on Nikitas' post:

1. It will take a lot of initiative and investments from the private sector to make Famagusta a livable place again. Any government authorities should support but not try to lead this process, because in that case they will introduce all the existing "red-tape" and get us nowhere.

2. In any construction project the main criteria for choosing the people for the job is if they can get it done properly, on time and withing budget.

3. I do not remember pre-1974 Famagusta as an "ugly" town full of planning mistakes. On the contrary, it was a truly beautiful and magnificent place.

4. Demolishing the seafront buildings in order not to "deprive the town of visual access to the sea" is a non-starter. If something like this happens not only the 1970's "image" of Famagusta will be permanently altered overnight, but also a number of new and unnecessary problems related to property and ownership will arise.

5. A realistic option that can be considered in the event where severe damages due to corrosion etc. are discovered to some of this buildings, is replacing them with new ones of the same floor area and height.

6. Regarding my earlier point that all parts of Famagusta should be planned in order to function and develop further together, I think that this is the only way forward (unless of course one believes that what was happening in the 1950's and 1960's was right). My understanding is that Nicosia is already developing under one joint masterplan without a solution in Cyprus. I do not see why Famagusta should be deprived any benefits that may arise from a similar masterplan after a solution.

[Nikitas]

Othello,

You obviously do not know Famagusta without the hotels, built by people who were into making profits and not really interested in the quality of life of the citizens.

The hotel boom started in the late 60s and intensified in the early 70s. Before that you could go for a bike ride along the beach road all the way to Derinia and be able to look at the sea.

The crowding of beaches with tall buildings is an old fashioned planning system which is being abandoned and one that effectively kills high quality tourism in the long run. The people who lost their hotels in Famagusta received ample grants to build hotels elsewhere. They can be compensated for the land area of their hotels. We know who these people are and know that they got much richer since 1974. Enough said.

As for contractors- for the civil engineering side, like drains, water grids, etc, the only contarctors able to take on such jobs are GC anyway. For private properties naturally each owner can pick and choose.

As for the communal division that existed in Famagusta in the past, it had nothing to do with EOKA etc. It is a direct result of the historic value of the city. The Venetians built the old walled city and Lala Mustafa conquered it and settled Turks within the walls. Greek Cypriots were limited to the surrounding land which was swampy and affected by malaria.

Thompsons visited Cyprus and observed this communal division in 1878, the first year of the British rule in Cyprus. It was not until the 1940s that malaria was defeated in Cyprus and especially Famagusta. At that time the town was still a citrus growing area. The affluence came in the 60s with tourism.

[cymart]

I have to admit that I hated those sea-front high-rises too!Who allowed them-was it Pougouros,the mayor???Hopefully they will not be preservable and will have to go!!
By the way,Emily Markidou has details of a fantasic eco-project for rebuilding Varosha into a world prototype city and it has international support and expertise.
She sent me an e-mail about it last year and I think I still have it if anyone is interested.

[Nikitas]

Cymart I am interested in the eco project.

I always thought that Famagusta is a prime candidate for a sane ecological town plan. The stress on the sane because I have seen some semi lunatic proposals by the fringe ecologists.

The high rises were put up at a time when there was no awareness of non monetary values in town planning. The goal was to cram as many hotel beds as possible in the town. IT is an outmoded approach which has been abandoned in almost all areas around the Med. In Spain now there is a generous grant for demolishing older hotels and rehabilitating the land.

[Othellos]

Nikitas,

How did the fact that Famagusta developed into a prime tourist destination in the 1960's and 1970's have a adverse effect on the quality of life in the town? If anything, tourism supported Famagusta by providing its people with steady jobs and an income.

Even if one accepts as correct everything you say about the town's hotels and their owners (which to the best of my knowledge is not), the fact remains that most of the buildings on the seafront were apartment blocks owned and inhabited by hundreds of individuals. Should their homes be taken once again away from them after their long overdue return in return for "compensation"? Who will compensate them and how? As we all know, all these years the refugees never received any real help from the state.

What is the "better" life quality that will be achieved by taking away from thousands of people their homes? Have there been any similar, successful precedents elsewhere that one can look at (you mentioned Sapin)?

I still do not understand how a tall building can block one's view to the sea in a different way than what a low building can? Are you suggesting that the entire beach front should be bulldozed after we return? Whatever happens, the fact is that there will always be someone who will be closer to the sea than others.

About who gets to do what in Famagusta (or elsewhetre) I will repeat that excluding other Cypriots on the ground of their ethnic background is discrimination and therefore unacceptable. Other than that, one can easily aquire the necessary know-how these days to do almost anything by hiring the right people. And at the end of the day, business competition in a market can also be a good thing.

My comment regarding all Famagusta developing as "one" has to do more with the future and not with what happened in the past or why Greeks and Turks lived where they lived until 1974. Having two (or more) urban entities functioning and developing side by side without common planning even after a solution will be the most stupid thing to do.