Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Hey look we have a genius amongst us who cannot even read!

The thread is about Turkey being "European" or not genius.

Who is discussing the entry procedure and your stupid signature, read again but take your time and read slowly, OK sunshine?

Also, just a quick note, I am one of those people who opposes her entry to the EU, so thanks but no thanks, you can ram you signature up where you know

Then the argument is purely based on ideology, attitudes, and culture and has absolutely nothing to do with "European Interests".

So stop talking utter bollocks, Einstein....

And that is where the real bollocks comes in...

You're telling me?

You are the one that said:

Europe is nothing but an alliance of interests and nothing more

And this...

There is no real criteria to be "European", if you scan through all its members and its future members you would always be able to find one that does not fit in a few criteria.

And this...

Obviously Turkey's membership does and that's why they are waving the EU banana in front of her.

And then all of a sudden you turned it around like an erratic hyena by stating the following...

The thread is about Turkey being "European" or not genius.

So make up your mind Einstein...or go back to sleep!

[shahmaran]

Re posting my own words is not an argument genius!

I have to prepare brunch, but I will come back don't you worry

[Paphitis]

Re posting my own words is not an argument genius!

I have to prepare brunch, but I will come back don't you worry

Not a problem!

You shouldn't take your tablets on an empty stomach anyway....

Besides, you are going to need all your energy to answer my post in the following thread:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=20

I really am looking forward to your response on this important issue...and I hope you don't disappoint me Shah! You are a fellow Leo after all, and we Leos are a cut above the rest after all...

[shahmaran]

Re posting my own words is not an argument genius!

I have to prepare brunch, but I will come back don't you worry

Not a problem!

You shouldn't take your tablets on an empty stomach anyway....

Besides, you are going to need all your energy to answer my post in the following thread:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=20

I really am looking forward to your response on this important issue...and I hope you don't disappoint me Shah! You are a fellow Leo after all, and we Leos are a cut above the rest after all...

Dear Paphitis, the threads point was all about whether Turkey belongs in Europe and possibly in the EU, and the argument was that it shares not history nor cultural past with other EU members and someone also went as far as to say that it was also geographically not European (!!).

Whether you believe that Turkey does not share anything in common with the rest of Europe or you believe otherwise (which was the actual point of the thread), does not change a bit about what is really going on.

Negotiations (as you have mentioned) are not even relevant to the matter, but if you must bring them in then you (and you too Oracle) should note that, there are clearly people in Europe who believe that Turkey can be/is European or they would not be negotiating.

So a country is either "European" meaning it is geographically and culturally, thus deserving a place within the Union, or it is not.

If you have a candidate for the EU then that either means the country is "European" or it shares interests with the rest of the EU members.

You cannot say that a country is NOT European, but it CAN "be" if it fulfills its obligations to enter the EU, that is absolute bollocks.

Do you see where I am coming from?

So when I say the EU is nothing but a union of interests and not of what can be considered as European, because that's what it is, interests come first, location, religion or culture comes second.

If you believe otherwise then please tell me what you think the EU is all about, and I assure you there are candidates or members that will not fit within some of the criteria even if Turkey does.

There are no set of criteria that would apply to all EU members and candidates in order to say that "this is" what makes a country European, meaning it is all a matter of interpretations leaving nothing but interests

[shahmaran]

Here are a few maps that when put together can further piss all over Oracles article and her belief on so many levels.

No disrespect to you Oracle, just to your views on this matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Political_geography

If Turkey is not in "Europe" then Cyprus is even further from it.

So, being in the EU is all about interests and criteria that would serve those interests, if it was about being in Europe then Turkey would be in and Cyprus would be out

[Oracle]

Shah, I think you are missing the point. The article made this statement about Turkey:

... it is in no sense European.

The main criterion (sense) which unites all European countries, which have satisfied the EU-entry requirements, is their shared mission towards a unified democratic, law-governed construct.

It is with this that Turkey tellingly does not fit in .... unless there is some drastic change in the way Turkey views International Law and individual human rights.

[shahmaran]

Shah, I think you are missing the point. The article made this statement about Turkey:

... it is in no sense European.

The main criterion (sense) which unites all European countries, which have satisfied the EU-entry requirements, is their shared mission towards a unified democratic, law-governed construct.

It is with this that Turkey tellingly does not fit in .... unless there is some drastic change in the way Turkey views International Law and individual human rights.

That is rubbish, "sense" is not a criteria and only an idiot would build an argument on top of it, this guy is obviously not very clever.

In many ways, Turkey is in Europe, even more so compared to some of the Eastern members who are appallingly poor and corrupt, and Cyprus which is not even Europe, so they might as well take Israel or Tunisia in at some point

No one can claim that Turkey is not democratic and that it is not law-governed.

It is law-governed but some just don't like its laws and that is always open for a debate.

Your article holds no argument under any meaning of the word "European".

[Nikitas]

"Any meaning of the word European"

Hmm let's see, religious tolerance- the continued closure of the Halki theological school.

Full implementation of the European Convention of Human Rights as it applies to Greeks from Istanbul Imvros and Tenedos and the expropriation of their properties.

The treatment of the Kurds, that is self explanatory

The involvement of the army in politics and policy formulation

And so much more. But one which stands above all else is the adulation of a personality to the point of quasi religion.

Now if the all the above sound European then you need to take a slow tour through Europe and see if Turkey can compare to the poorer areas of Poland, Hungary, Romania in any way. You are confusing national wealth with what Europe is all about. It is an English trait rather than a Turkish one, but one which many Turks are finding convenient to use as an argument.

[Get Real!]

“European” is whatever the creators/inventors of Europe think it is!

Geographical? Political? Religious? Social? All the above?

Answer this question with a level of accuracy and you may then proceed to check Turkey.

[shahmaran]

How is that an argument?

Europe is a continent and it has no "creators" and continental maps are not drawn by its people.

Maybe you mean the European Union? Because that is not exactly about geographical location, as Cyprus is not in Europe.

Geographically, Turkey is in Europe, Cyprus is not.

Religion, well Bosnia is Muslim and a candidate, lets not even get in to the number of Muslims living in all EU countries.

Political, what about it?

Social, what about it?

If Turkey complies with EU demands will that make her "European"?

What kind of a stupid idea is that?

Nikitas, Halki was not closed down by force but it was a change in the law for the entire Turkish education system, which they refused to comply with and ended up with them having to close it down partially.

They still have many foreign schools which teach other religions, what about them?

Basically most of Turkey's internal issues are solvable, just like many EU countries who still have problems, that is not the point.