Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

YFred be sure mate about our future . We all knowing what we are doing or what we are after . We can have some times interruptions ... doesn't water .... our way is open .
I trust our young generation YFred . They are very luck now they can get very easily every information. They have their own brains they can easily judge what is good what is bad for them . with forcing them to do things that they don't like , it will not help at all .They will direct their own destiny .we are lucky that more than 95 % of our boys and girls are graduated from universities .

So do I Halil. It's the young generation that will decide what to do in the future. But we can set them on a good course by having a good workable agreement that they can build on. So they can build a better future for themselves and the future generations.

You must be joking, surely.? What, with the present "corrupted society" you Fascist NeoPartitionist built for them where they do not know the difference between Right and Wrong, but only what they can get away with, because the TA will protect them no matter what they do, no matter whose Human Rights violations they will commit, on whose property they will build their lives on, not understanding the rules of True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. You people have set the course for them to become outcasts of western society and values of Europe. The only difference the future generation will have than the present generation, is that they will have University diplomas from the north for what it's worth, which means you will have a somewhat "educated corrupt society". I can't wait to see how the generation after the next one will turn out, but if the past anything to go by, I would say not too well.!

Lets hope that all future "corrupted societies" in the north can be corrected now with a settlement soon based on True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles. The only problem as I see, is that we have too many Fascist NeoPartitionist to allow such principles to become norm for Cyprus, in which case, I don't know why you would bother in sending your kids to Universities to become what exactly, smart Human Rights violators, or are you planning for them to move to other countries. The latter will probably be better for them, so that they can see how the west lives under True Democracy in a Fair and Just societies where they will be treated as equals with the citizens of the country they will call home from then on, since they will be powerless against the settlers who will have their own Anatolian style of Democracy, which will mean that your kids will not want to come back if they in fact embrace True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU principles while living abroad. I can’t say I would blame them really, which will be the fault of today’s generation for continuing to embrace “corrupted society” for yourselves.!

After not solving this problem for 45 years, if you think you can solve it in one step, you continue to live in dream land. You missed the gist of my post. The solution will evolve with the new generation and they will determine the final agreement. In the meantime we will do what we can to take a step towards it.

Listen YFred, a rotten apple does not drop too far from the tree it grows on, the fore you should not expect any better results from the future generation if the present one are setting them on a corrupted course. If the tree is rotten, why wouldn't the fruit it produces.? Surely that is not too difficult to understand, is it.?

The rotten apple will still produce a healthy apple seed and a healthy apple tree will grow from it. The apple is rotten because of disease, it is not inherent. Change the environment and then you will be surprised at the next generation.

Your argument may hold true if you were to eradicate all the rotten Apple Trees now. The question is, are you willing to do that.? If so, then it brings us back to what I already stated, which is, in order for the new generation to be on the right path, they will need to be guided with True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles.? Anything other than the above principles, all you would have done is to change rotten red apples to rotten green apples still falling from the same rotten trees..!

To continue with your analogy, you don't need to remove the rotten apply trees, you just treat them and improve their environment, next generation of apples will be fine. It's the environment you need to treat. You are blaming the victim. It is a very common misconception.

Well, I have been giving you the treatment needed all along, but you keep refusing to use it, so here is your treatment to solve your rotten Apple Trees and the rotten Apples once and for all. Give them a heavy dose of True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles and watch them become whole again. Unless you inject the above "medicine" into your rotten Apple Trees, you are never going to harvest any good Apples.!

[YFred]

YFred be sure mate about our future . We all knowing what we are doing or what we are after . We can have some times interruptions ... doesn't water .... our way is open .
I trust our young generation YFred . They are very luck now they can get very easily every information. They have their own brains they can easily judge what is good what is bad for them . with forcing them to do things that they don't like , it will not help at all .They will direct their own destiny .we are lucky that more than 95 % of our boys and girls are graduated from universities .

So do I Halil. It's the young generation that will decide what to do in the future. But we can set them on a good course by having a good workable agreement that they can build on. So they can build a better future for themselves and the future generations.

You must be joking, surely.? What, with the present "corrupted society" you Fascist NeoPartitionist built for them where they do not know the difference between Right and Wrong, but only what they can get away with, because the TA will protect them no matter what they do, no matter whose Human Rights violations they will commit, on whose property they will build their lives on, not understanding the rules of True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. You people have set the course for them to become outcasts of western society and values of Europe. The only difference the future generation will have than the present generation, is that they will have University diplomas from the north for what it's worth, which means you will have a somewhat "educated corrupt society". I can't wait to see how the generation after the next one will turn out, but if the past anything to go by, I would say not too well.!

Lets hope that all future "corrupted societies" in the north can be corrected now with a settlement soon based on True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU Principles. The only problem as I see, is that we have too many Fascist NeoPartitionist to allow such principles to become norm for Cyprus, in which case, I don't know why you would bother in sending your kids to Universities to become what exactly, smart Human Rights violators, or are you planning for them to move to other countries. The latter will probably be better for them, so that they can see how the west lives under True Democracy in a Fair and Just societies where they will be treated as equals with the citizens of the country they will call home from then on, since they will be powerless against the settlers who will have their own Anatolian style of Democracy, which will mean that your kids will not want to come back if they in fact embrace True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and EU principles while living abroad. I can’t say I would blame them really, which will be the fault of today’s generation for continuing to embrace “corrupted society” for yourselves.!

After not solving this problem for 45 years, if you think you can solve it in one step, you continue to live in dream land. You missed the gist of my post. The solution will evolve with the new generation and they will determine the final agreement. In the meantime we will do what we can to take a step towards it.

Listen YFred, a rotten apple does not drop too far from the tree it grows on, the fore you should not expect any better results from the future generation if the present one are setting them on a corrupted course. If the tree is rotten, why wouldn't the fruit it produces.? Surely that is not too difficult to understand, is it.?

The rotten apple will still produce a healthy apple seed and a healthy apple tree will grow from it. The apple is rotten because of disease, it is not inherent. Change the environment and then you will be surprised at the next generation.

Your argument may hold true if you were to eradicate all the rotten Apple Trees now. The question is, are you willing to do that.? If so, then it brings us back to what I already stated, which is, in order for the new generation to be on the right path, they will need to be guided with True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles.? Anything other than the above principles, all you would have done is to change rotten red apples to rotten green apples still falling from the same rotten trees..!

To continue with your analogy, you don't need to remove the rotten apply trees, you just treat them and improve their environment, next generation of apples will be fine. It's the environment you need to treat. You are blaming the victim. It is a very common misconception.

Well, I have been giving you the treatment needed all along, but you keep refusing to use it, so here is your treatment to solve your rotten Apple Trees and the rotten Apples once and for all. Give them a heavy dose of True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and the EU Principles and watch them become whole again. Unless you inject the above "medicine" into your rotten Apple Trees, you are never going to harvest any good Apples.!

There is a slight problem with your chemicals called True democracy, Human Rights and International Laws and these apples. They are a little bit like enzymes and can only work in a very specific way. They are there to benefit the first world at the expense of the third world. They are no cure at all, in fact they exasperate the symptoms. The problem is that 35 years of embargo on TRNC and 35 years of trade and investment in the south has pushed the RoC in to the first world and TRNC into third world. Now do you see the problem? Remove the barriers, allow investment to flow into TRNC and push them nearer to the first world and I am sure they will embrace those lovely chemicals, all three of them.

For now we need locally produce chemicals for this little problem. And to add insult to injury, the cheapest chemicals originate from Turkey.

[Jerry]

As the population from Turkey becomes proportionally larger and larger, the day will come when the majority demands things like compulsory religious instruction in schools just like in Turkey, and why should a small minority have the right to block this majority will?

Probably without realising it, but never the less true, Tim has summed up the Cyprus Problem. Let's hope the Turkish Cypriots are even more successful at imposing minority will against the mainlanders as they were against their fellow Cypriots.

[YFred]

As the population from Turkey becomes proportionally larger and larger, the day will come when the majority demands things like compulsory religious instruction in schools just like in Turkey, and why should a small minority have the right to block this majority will?

Probably without realising it, but never the less true, Tim has summed up the Cyprus Problem. Let's hope the Turkish Cypriots are even more successful at imposing minority will against the mainlanders as they were against their fellow Cypriots.

Judging by the fact that the TCs have 90% representation in Parliment and probaply 99% representation in the Civil Service, I do believe that situation already exists.

[Jerry]

As the population from Turkey becomes proportionally larger and larger, the day will come when the majority demands things like compulsory religious instruction in schools just like in Turkey, and why should a small minority have the right to block this majority will?

Probably without realising it, but never the less true, Tim has summed up the Cyprus Problem. Let's hope the Turkish Cypriots are even more successful at imposing minority will against the mainlanders as they were against their fellow Cypriots.

Judging by the fact that the TCs have 90% representation in Parliment and probaply 99% representation in the Civil Service, I do believe that situation already exists.

Well good for them Fred, it's a pity that they are not the ones who have the last word in the north.

[Nikitas]

"I can see that Turkey's policies have the long-term aim of taking control of the whole island. "

Tim put it plainly and clearly for all to understand.

The insistence on keeping an army permanently on the island is part of this policy. The support for this and other linked demands from TCs shows the moral decrepitude that has taken over TC society. A whole community connives at its own extinction and instead of alarms going off there are celebrations instead.

The erosion is too far gone to change now. The demands projected in the talks prove that the TCs cannot, or will not, pull back from the brink. TCs cannot realise that their one and only means to saving their culture is a genuine solution along with full implementation of EU aquis.

The south has the option of cutting off the north. What option do the TCs have left to them?

[Piratis]

If present trends continue, the Turkish Cypriots will within one generation cease to exist as a group with their own cultural identity. Does anybody disagree?

How they maintain and develop their own cultural identity is up to them, and not a problem for the rest of us.

What is a problem is the occupation of half of our island and the importation of foreign settlers.

What a shame that you cannot understand what is taking place.

I understand very well Tim. This is not something that started today. TMT (with the guidance of Turkey) since before the conflict had started this process, forcing every Muslim Cypriot to accept that he was ethnically Turkish.

Until that time most TCs spoke Greek, and many of them had Greek as their first language, but TMT prohibited to any Muslim Cypriot to speak Greek and forced them to be "pure Turks".

What I am saying is not that I like what is going on. What I am saying is that it is not my right to tell to TCs how to maintain and develop their own identity. It is not "my business", or "my problem", but one that TCs themselves should resolve.

What I have the right to demand is for freedom to my country from foreign occupation, for the return of the foreign Settlers to Turkey, for the return of the native Cypriots to the lands of their forefathers, for democracy and human rights.

[yialousa1971]

Im pleased to note the proposal has met with opposition from the T/C Teachers Union.
Knowing T/Cs as I do I think the overwhelming majority will resist and would want to retain their own identity as Cypriots. Every one can now see that Turkey is preparing the ground for complete annexation of the norther part of Cyprus .

You do not know them very well then.

[Tim Drayton]

If present trends continue, the Turkish Cypriots will within one generation cease to exist as a group with their own cultural identity. Does anybody disagree?

How they maintain and develop their own cultural identity is up to them, and not a problem for the rest of us.

What is a problem is the occupation of half of our island and the importation of foreign settlers.

What a shame that you cannot understand what is taking place.

I understand very well Tim. This is not something that started today. TMT (with the guidance of Turkey) since before the conflict had started this process, forcing every Muslim Cypriot to accept that he was ethnically Turkish.

Until that time most TCs spoke Greek, and many of them had Greek as their first language, but TMT prohibited to any Muslim Cypriot to speak Greek and forced them to be "pure Turks".

What I am saying is not that I like what is going on. What I am saying is that it is not my right to tell to TCs how to maintain and develop their own identity. It is not "my business", or "my problem", but one that TCs themselves should resolve.

What I have the right to demand is for freedom to my country from foreign occupation, for the return of the foreign Settlers to Turkey, for the return of the native Cypriots to the lands of their forefathers, for democracy and human rights.

Exactly. The news story in this thread is surely an attempt to make one further small turn of the same screw. I find it encouraging that the Turkish Cypriot teachers unions have voiced strong opposition to the proposal and will probably take action if these plans go ahead. It is up to the TCs to take action to defend their own identity, but surely such action deserves external support.

[Nikitas]

External support in what form?

If the GC unions voice support this will be seen as collusion with the "enemy" and will dilute the power of the TC unions' action in the eyes of TC public opinion.

Bringing the matter up in the Eu court would be one way, but cannot be done because the north has excluded itself from EU jurisdiction, apparently because "the law favors the GCs" per mr Talat.

So what support can be given to this and other actions that assert TC independence? That is the quandary.