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TRNC established through the use of Force.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby kurupetos » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:25 pm

EU Ctzn wrote:Some very interesting and provocative postings.
I must compliment Elko for his substantive and truthfull posts. My understanding of Turkish, and British involvement is substantiated by Elkos postings.
It is very clear that the Turks have an undeniable right in law and constitutionally to participate in the Governance of Cyprus. the ROc has a similar right. The Turkish right however was stolen fron them by the Greek supported Makarios, Sampson and the like of "Eoka" and "B". The ROC ,administration in my view continue to aspire to erradicate Turkish rights by stealth. This is wrong in law and this aspiration continues to feed the fire of hate, failure, depression, anger, and vengence. All the attributes that any sucessfull, prosperous community will most urgently wish to escape from.

It is due time that both sides of this no win situ,ation take stock and relinquish their claims against and hatred for their counterparts and neighbours. Let both sides have their nation and be proud of it. Live and let Live. You will soon be dead. Happy or Unhappy? I see no winners in this war. Many people including children suffered great loss in the 60,s. Those who keep the flames of hatred fed deserve to die by the same flames. These people need to dig deep and work towards acceptance of their position;build upon it and prepare the next generation for Peace, tollerance, prosperity and hapiness. It is really that basic. Who on this forum would sign up?


Really? :?
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Postby EU Ctzn » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:32 pm

Kurupetos,
Not sure if that is a signature in the yes or the no box.
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Postby kurupetos » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:37 pm

EU Ctzn wrote:Kurupetos,
Not sure if that is a signature in the yes or the no box.


I would sign with my blood the freedom of cyprus from foreigners. Are you with me?
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Postby elko » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:33 pm

Let us be serious.
I remember very well the year 1960 and the declaration of the Republic of Cyprus. I remember distinctly the excitement and approval from Turkish Cypriots for the new republic but unfortunately Makarios thought otherwise and made no secret of his desire to use the Republic as a stepping stone towards Enosis.

As it stands, the current ROC is not constitutional simply because it is not in accordance with the constitution of ROC. I know all about the "doctrine of necessity". The same doctrine applies to Turkish Cypriots. To cut a long story short, the outcome is all the result of political conveniences and nothing to do with legality and law. This is a knife that cuts both ways and such political conveniences can change direction very rapidly depending on various situations.

The Greek Cypriots may think that they have all the time in the world and they can wait but they do not realize that over confidence is their primary enemy. Things can change very rapidly.

Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction. Just take the Orams example. Now we have lots of Turkish nationals, Russians and Iranians interested in the housing market in TRNC and I can tell you that these new customers are stinking rich. So never be too sure, there is always a way out. What is certain is that now Turkish Cypriots have their own country and they will never give it up. this is the absolute truth, like it or not.
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Postby EU Ctzn » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:35 pm

Kurupetos,
I admire your devition to Cyprus and your clear national pride.
Cyprus or at least the ROC is now a European State. I am not a great supporter of this Union of very different peoples and cultures. I indeed am British....or even more specifically Welsh. I too have pride in my Nation.

I feel that the ROC being so small is loosing out more than most by being in the Union. Of course it has achieved political upmanship over the TRNC but the influx of Eoropeans and legislation is diluting what is and who is Cypriot.

I (probably to your annoyance) feel that the Turkish part of Cyprus too has a right to governance on the Island.
The most likely route to satisfy the rights ( as i define them) to both sides is the establishment of two distinct regions.

It is the case that since 1974 the pro rata occupation has gone in favour of the TRNC. However the ROC have the legitimacy and legal card. The Anan plan of 2004 came quite close to solution but fell at the last hurdle.

My own view of the current situation is that the talks will fail because(dare I say it) the ROC will not concede that the Turks do indeed have constitutional governance rights. The two regions will diverge and seperate. My hope is that an atmosphere of tollerance, understanding and respect will prevail. The border will remain open and Cyprus will move forward to prosperous and proud happiness.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:41 pm

elko wrote:Quote from "Get Real"
elko wrote:
Until the point of annexation all the inhabitants of Cyprus had Turkish Nationality.

Utter rubbish! Only Turkish Cypriots had Turkish nationality which is why the Treaty of Lausanne only mentions THEM as losing it to acquire the British.


Get Real,
First of all congrtatulations for your name, I think its very apt. I hope you live up to it very soon :)
During the Ottoman rule, would you be kind enough to tell me about the nationality of the Greek Cypriots? Did they have Greek Nationality, British, Russian or American? When the annexation by the British were recognized, Turkish Cypriots, as distinc from others" were offered the option to keep their Turkish Nationality provided they left the island within a certain time. I think I am wasting my time on you. Do you see the reason why I don't write often here? Do you see why I rightly so call this place a lunatic assylum? I write on C44, on VO and lots of other places, in short I write whereever I find sensible people. I try this place occasionally but every time I am disappointed. The same old, the same old again and again. Don't you have better things to do rather than regurgitate what you have been wrongly taught at school? I give up once again!!!


elko, do they still teach you at your schools that "A Turk is equal to all the world." and that when you conquer foreign nations they actually become yours?

The kind of sick mentality that you have belongs to the past my friend. Today the civilization has advanced (but not you apparently) and territories are not owned by foreign empires and rulers but by their native people and they are ruled by those people in a democratic way.

It is irrelevant who conquered and ruled Cyprus in the past against the will of the Cypriot people. You can commit all the invasions, atrocities, ethnic cleanings that you like, you can try to change the names of our villages, destroy our cultural heritage and falsify our history, but in the end you will fail like all the other foreign invaders before you. They come and the go, but we are always here and we will always be, because this is OUR island, and not the island of some foreign ruler.

I would suggest to you to go hide back in your hole along with the similarly minded criminals and crooks, because in here, while you are free to express you opinion, you don't have the luxury to sensor the truth and pass your lies and propaganda.

The "trnc" is nothing but an illegal entity which was created by means of ethnic cleansing. The territory which this pseudo state is declared is the homeland of 5 times more Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots are the ones who own the 80% of the land.

The Turks from the 1950s have created a plan for the annihilation of the vast majority of Cypriots from half of their country and the creation in this artifical way of a "Turkish State" on the stolen land. They collaborated with other foreign Imperialists and they started both a conflict (1958) and later a war (1974) in order to put their racist plan into action.

Unfortunately for them the excuses they created for excusing the execution of their planned actions did not convince anybody, and while hopping to become the victorious conquerors following the steps of their Ottoman ancestors, they ended up becoming the bigger losers.

As the recent ruling of the ECJ shows the Republic of Cyprus will gradually use more and more its powers within EU and those who were dreaming that they "won the war" hoping that all their criminal dreams would become true, they will soon realize what big losers they are.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:48 pm

Piratis wrote:
elko wrote:Quote from "Get Real"
elko wrote:
Until the point of annexation all the inhabitants of Cyprus had Turkish Nationality.

Utter rubbish! Only Turkish Cypriots had Turkish nationality which is why the Treaty of Lausanne only mentions THEM as losing it to acquire the British.


Get Real,
First of all congrtatulations for your name, I think its very apt. I hope you live up to it very soon :)
During the Ottoman rule, would you be kind enough to tell me about the nationality of the Greek Cypriots? Did they have Greek Nationality, British, Russian or American? When the annexation by the British were recognized, Turkish Cypriots, as distinc from others" were offered the option to keep their Turkish Nationality provided they left the island within a certain time. I think I am wasting my time on you. Do you see the reason why I don't write often here? Do you see why I rightly so call this place a lunatic assylum? I write on C44, on VO and lots of other places, in short I write whereever I find sensible people. I try this place occasionally but every time I am disappointed. The same old, the same old again and again. Don't you have better things to do rather than regurgitate what you have been wrongly taught at school? I give up once again!!!


elko, do they still teach you at your schools that "A Turk is equal to all the world." and that when you conquer foreign nations they actually become yours?

The kind of sick mentality that you have belongs to the past my friend. Today the civilization has advanced (but not you apparently) and territories are not owned by foreign empires and rulers but by their native people and they are ruled by those people in a democratic way.

It is irrelevant who conquered and ruled Cyprus in the past against the will of the Cypriot people. You can commit all the invasions, atrocities, ethnic cleanings that you like, you can try to change the names of our villages, destroy our cultural heritage and falsify our history, but in the end you will fail like all the other foreign invaders before you. They come and the go, but we are always here and we will always be, because this is OUR island, and not the island of some foreign ruler.

I would suggest to you to go hide back in your hole along with the similarly minded criminals and crooks, because in here, while you are free to express you opinion, you don't have the luxury to sensor the truth and pass your lies and propaganda.

The "trnc" is nothing but an illegal entity which was created by means of ethnic cleansing. The territory which this pseudo state is declared is the homeland of 5 times more Greek Cypriots than Turkish Cypriots, and Greek Cypriots are the ones who own the 80% of the land.

The Turks from the 1950s have created a plan for the annihilation of the vast majority of Cypriots from half of their country and the creation in this artifical way of a "Turkish State" on the stolen land. They collaborated with other foreign Imperialists and they started both a conflict (1958) and later a war (1974) in order to put their racist plan into action.

Unfortunately for them the excuses they created for excusing the execution of their planned actions did not convince anybody, and while hopping to become the victorious conquerors following the steps of their Ottoman ancestors, they ended up becoming the bigger losers.

As the recent ruling of the ECJ shows the Republic of Cyprus will gradually use more and more its powers within EU and those who were dreaming that they "won the war" hoping that all their criminal dreams would become true, they will soon realize what big losers they are.


What have you gained with this ruling what has change? you are no closer to a solution today than you were 35 years ago.
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Postby elko » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:52 pm

Pirates,
You are your own worst enemy, it is impossible to discuss sensibly with people like you. Good luck to you and sleep well, I did not mean to upset you, sorry.
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Postby kurupetos » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:37 pm

EU Ctzn wrote:Kurupetos,
I admire your devition to Cyprus and your clear national pride.
Cyprus or at least the ROC is now a European State. I am not a great supporter of this Union of very different peoples and cultures. I indeed am British....or even more specifically Welsh. I too have pride in my Nation.

I feel that the ROC being so small is loosing out more than most by being in the Union. Of course it has achieved political upmanship over the TRNC but the influx of Eoropeans and legislation is diluting what is and who is Cypriot.

I (probably to your annoyance) feel that the Turkish part of Cyprus too has a right to governance on the Island.
The most likely route to satisfy the rights ( as i define them) to both sides is the establishment of two distinct regions.

It is the case that since 1974 the pro rata occupation has gone in favour of the TRNC. However the ROC have the legitimacy and legal card. The Anan plan of 2004 came quite close to solution but fell at the last hurdle.

My own view of the current situation is that the talks will fail because(dare I say it) the ROC will not concede that the Turks do indeed have constitutional governance rights. The two regions will diverge and seperate. My hope is that an atmosphere of tollerance, understanding and respect will prevail. The border will remain open and Cyprus will move forward to prosperous and proud happiness.


There is no turkish or greek part. There are two communities but no parts. The whole island is the RoC (Republic of Cyprus).

The constitution prohibits the partition and/or annexation of the island or part of it, and therefore the "TRNC" is illegal.

If you bother to read the 1960 constitution and the UN resolutions, as I said before, you will verify what I write here.

Anyway, why do you care? You are a foreigner. The only thing you can do is to put pressure on your country, the UK, to withdraw its SBAs and put pressure on Turkey to abide to the UN & EU laws, since Turkey is a prospective member of the EU.

The TCs have every right, and obligation, to participate in the RoC government. But not until the Turkish government has withdrawn her troops and settlers, and every GC and TC returned to their properties. The EU can safeguard the human rights of every RoC citizen.

We do not need Turkish, British, or Greek guarantees. They proved to be disastrous by all 3 parts. What we need is true unification and independence. Then and only then prosperity will extend to the whole island. Otherwise the free areas will prosper and the "TRNC" will remain a poor pseudo-state.

Finally be careful to your definitions. A Greek/Turk is defined as the mainland Greek/Turk, where a GC/TC is a Greek Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot.
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Postby elko » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:46 pm

Kurupetos:
The EU can safeguard the human rights of every RoC citizen.


The joke of the day. Ask Turks living in Thrace about that.
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