shahmaran wrote:Oranges and lemons are my business Kikapu!
Read Kosovo's declarations of independence and why they were accepted.
They are a divided people who have shown inability to live together in peace and considering their violent past, it was the best way to move forward. Sound familiar?
Did the Serbs like it? Far from it!
Did the rest of the world care? Not even close.
The only ones who opposed were not after justice but were complaining about the EU and the UN's bias policy towards world order, when it suited them.
Russia threatened to retaliate with the recognition of the TRNC and of South Ossetia and a few more.
What does this tell you about how this entire issue is dealt with throughout the world?
Via true justice and human rights? Or via a political war for self interests?
The TRNC is unrecognised, not because the world truly "cares" for the cry of the GC's and that it is UN decisions regarding what is just but because it suits them at the moment, that is however, changeable.
Oranges and lemons are my business Kikapu!
I knew you dealt in oranges, Shah, but did not know about lemons, which is why I did not use Apples, instead used lemon, because one can easily try and make a connection between the two citrus fruits if they really wanted to make justification, that as long as they are both from a citrus family, then they must be the same, except one can be very sweet and the other always very sour and bitter, so I'm afraid, Kosovo and the "trnc" has very little in common, and just because they both declared independence, and the fact that Kosovo got recognition from many countries, but not from the EU and the UN, in a relatively short time after separating from Serbia does not make them the same. 35 years on, and the "trnc" has only managed one recognition (non according to MrH), and are not even able to convince the Muslim Nations to recognise them. Why, because in the way how the "trnc" came to be with massive expulsion of inhabitants from the north of the island. If they did that, they might as well support Israel to take over all of Palestinian land. If things were that simple, I would also like to declare my place of residence as an independent country here in Switzerland, and that's without even expelling anyone from my neighbourhood, which by and large that did not happen in Kosovo as the case is with the "trnc". So just to recap, Kosovo and the "trnc" have nothing in common other than each declaring independence, and Oranges and Lemons have nothing in common when comes to taste, other than they belong in the same citrus family. One is sweet and the other is sour and bitter.
Let me give you another example.
Let say YFred is out looking for a date to get laid and he goes down to SOHO in London for a little action and comes across a transvestite who has all the "assets" of a woman from looks to shape and to YFred the transvestite looks and feels like a woman and doesn't even know it is a transvestite, because he thinks it is a woman, "the sweet thing", like your oranges, but then when he takes home the transvestite and starts unwrapping "her", YFred will discover that what he bargained for was not a "sweet thing" (orange) but a "sour thing"(lemon) instead. Now, I must not be so presumptuous to think that YFred was looking for a "sweet thing" at all and not for a "sour thing", because for all we know, he deliberately wanted to convince himself that there was no difference between a woman and a transvestite, just like you with Kosovo and the "trnc", but hey, to each their own.! If that makes YFred happy, then we are all happy for him also.!
The point in all this is, there is a huge difference between Kosovo and the "trnc" since what something may seem to be the same, they may actually be not, which Turkey said the same, as well as Talat. Then again, does Talat ever say anything that is different from Turkey.?
Read Kosovo's declarations of independence and why they were accepted.
I did not read it, but in any case, it is irrelevant to what we are talking about.
They are a divided people who have shown inability to live together in peace and considering their violent past, it was the best way to move forward. Sound familiar?
Perhaps, then again, perhaps not. TCs and GCs managed to live together for a very long time, about 400 years and only in the last 50+ years there have been problems, so what went wrong.? How about Britain, Turkey, Greece and the US as being the reason in what went wrong. In any case, had the TCs and the GCs had their own land separate from each other, as the case was with Kosovo and Serbia, your argument may hold some water, but it was not, therefore your argument does not work here.
Did the Serbs like it? Far from it!
Does that make it OK, that "Might is Right".? The Serbs have not given up, and neither has the RoC. Lucky for the RoC, they are in a political position being a EU member to cause problems for the "trnc" and Turkey. The Serbs only have Russia, and in the future, the Serbs will be forced to give up on Kosovo in order for Serbia and Kosovo to become EU members and sort out their differences while being in the EU. As for the "trnc" and Turkey, they will be at the mercy of the RoC whether they will become part of the EU or not. Lets see how that will work out, because it is too soon to tell one way or the other.
Did the rest of the world care? Not even close.
Well, yes. UN and the EU bodies does not support Kosovo's independence, but only certain individual countries, which again, the "trnc" has not managed to do, other than Turkey.!
The only ones who opposed were not after justice but were complaining about the EU and the UN's bias policy towards world order, when it suited them.
That may be. It doesn't change anything. Kosovo and the "trnc" are not the same and the fact that one has gotten a lot of recognition and the other only has one, must tell you a lot as to why they are not the same.
Russia threatened to retaliate with the recognition of the TRNC and of South Ossetia and a few more.
Actually it was only the personal view of the Russian Ambassador to Turkey, who very cleverly said, and I'm paraphrasing it, that, "if Turkey were to recognise break away South Ossetia and Abkhazia, then he would recognise the "trnc". Not Russia, but he would recognise the "trnc" personally. So why didn't Turkey go for it if it was such a good deal.? Well, it wasn't a good deal. Besides, last thing Turkey wanted to do is to piss the US off by giving such recognition to those breakaway "states", more than they did in 2003 by closing Incirlik airbase to the US forces to be used in Iraq.
What does this tell you about how this entire issue is dealt with throughout the world?
It's true, but if one can fight to reclaim their country, they will in what ever means it is possible to them, and with the RoC, it is not military force but legal and political force, and they have been very effective in doing that since 2004. We will have to wait and see how they will use these to repeal the acts of 1974.!
Via true justice and human rights? Or via a political war for self interests?
In any conflict, one must use everything that is available for them to use against their adversaries who may be bigger and stronger. As I stated above, for the RoC for now, it is their legal and political power which at the moment is just as strong as the military power from the north via Turkey.
The TRNC is unrecognised, not because the world truly "cares" for the cry of the GC's and that it is UN decisions regarding what is just but because it suits them at the moment, that is however, changeable.
The "trnc" is unrecognised because of all the UN resolutions against it, which are legally and politically binding. The only ones who are not adhering to the UN resolutions, is Turkey, who happens to be party to the creation of the "trnc", so no surprises there. As the saying goes, that
"the baby is so ugly, only a mother could love".! Well, it seems to be the case here, is it not.?
