Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

You Said:

MrH I want to be serious for a second. If you don't understand some basic fundamentals about law and politics there's really not that much of a point entering into a discussion. I'm constantly having to point out basic points to you that an adult should know by now. Once you've grasped these issues then we can go deeper into a debate about who's wrong and who's right. For the time being you need to read up a little and figure out what the difference is of a segregated people living in a segregated piece of land where they form the majority population and their right for self determination.

Once again, ( and the recent court rulings should have made me pointing this out for you unnecessary) You cannot take another country's soveregn territory, throw out the majority population from that region, live in their homes and expect to ever be recognised as a separate entity.

F ace it, recognition will only happen once WE ALLOW IT. Although I'm starting to suspect you already know that otherwise why would you be working so hard to convince me to let you have it?

Here Goes.........

Hi DT,

Thanks for the above posting, I'm glad you've suddenly got serious. Let's talk business. Firstly, it is not the GCs that will, or can grant our independence as a Secession or Sucession state of Cyprus called the TRNC (If you know what that means!). Secondly, there are certain factors completely separate from Greek Cypriot Cyprus' power, but may actually be recalled at a later stage concerning Turkey's EU membership. Let's put it this way, if the 11 chapters affecting Cyprus EU entry were the last cards on the table before Turkey becomes an EU member state, I would bet my house in Girne that Turkey would accept any Cyprus deal - only if it was guaranteed EU entry. What does that tell us? Well, Turkey is willing to allow the Cyprus issue to drag on until it reaches that particular stage; the last 11 chapters that is. But, the real issue concerning Cyprus and the Greek Cypriots in particular is actually time, the here and now and the growing influence of the TRNC and its now known "Isolation" and the current talks process. This is why I always comment on the phrase "Time is running out". It trully is when talking about seeking a federal agreement only, when talking about the last straw or when talking about how silly the Greek Cypriots must have acted prior to endorsing the "Bi-zonal, Bi-communal Federal" structure in 1992, 2004 the Annan Plan and now again (Quite surprisingly) in the final showdown between Talat and Christofias - I find this entire scenario amazing and to good to be true. We, Turkish Cypriots, have pushed this federal Bi-zonal so far that even the EU and UN have endorsed the idea (perhaps not accepted it via a referendum result, but that now doesn't matter, does it?).

Therefore, we are now really at a point where if the Greek Cypriots reject this Bi-zonal Federal new plan being discussed again, the EU will have no choice but to make some kind of "Humanitarian" or "Economic, Political" incentive, move, for the Turkish Cypriots. Being left out in the cold again, as I am sure you know DT, is no longer an option for the EU. So, what does this mean? It basically means that the Greek Cypriots will have lost there long struggle to unite Cyprus under a deal that would not encompass a two constituent state federal governmental structure. It also means that our desire to see Cyprus split into two FEDERATED states, like the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus declared from 1977 to 1983, prior to the 1983 declaration fof the TRNC, would have finally been achieved. You see DT, Turkey never, ever meant or even expected the TRNC to be a recognised entity - they are not that stupid! They only meant it to act as a MORE-THAN what they had originally wanted, kind of like a bargaining chip, in order to make the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (which is what Turkey really wants) look more favourable to the international community and perhaps the GCs - and guess what? It's working! Even the UN and EU are seeking this type of solution that, in the past, was considered Taboo. We all know that the original 1960 constitution was "imperfect" DT, even Makarios knew that which is why he wanted the 13 point planned changes in 1963. However, as the changes, to the TCs, appeared more of a domineering strategy to unite with Greece, proven in 1974 with the Greek Military Junta of 15 July, Welcome Turkey's new phase of a Cyprus agreement in the form of a FEDERAL structure. The High level Agreement after 1974 was a blessing for Turkey. You see DT, Turkey doesn't really recognise the TRNC, it never has, and never will - you'd know about it if Turkey really intended it to be internationally recognised, think about it?

Anyway, getting back to today, believe it when I say that many Turkish Cypriots were as SHOCKED as the Greek Cypriots when Turkey endorsed the ANNAN PLAN and was prepared to see the TRNC dissolved into a Constituent/Federated State as part of a united Cyprus. But, since 2004, we have now understood the bigger picture of this new Federal structure that Turkey has so convincingly convinced the UN and EU into backing and supporting, that I have no doubt that the Turkish Cypriots in Northern Cyprus will give a resounding 95% "Yes" this time around.

This would mean that the ROC of today would be dissolved, if the GCs say "Yes" as well, and the island would shift into gear similarly to how the former Yugoslavia was founded on with a collection of five self-governing states, ready to legally part from one another under international law. But, now that you know what I mean, I have no doubt that the Greek Cypriots, as also read in the "Lobby for Cyprus" website, will say "OXI" again to any new Cyprus plan that fails short of today's existing GC-Controlled ROC Constitution and its many changes. Then, I would say that Partition will definitely be made legal, not by the GREEK CYPRIOTS and their wish for it Mr DT, but because the EU and UN will have been left in a situation where they will have to in front of the international community. But wait a minute, Turkey will not allow this to happen! Confused? Carry on reading. The late Papadopoulos shouldn't have endorsed the Annan Plan in New York 2004 before it (the plan) going out to a referendum to his own people. And now, Christofias shouldn't have moved in so quickly to kick start talks again based on exactly the same principals as what Clerides and Denktas did back in 2003. Unfortunately for Christofias and the Greek Cypriot people, Mr Talat ACTUALLY WANTS this solution! Turkey has always wanted a Federal structure for the island of Cyprus, ever since 1963. Why? Well, you'll have to wait until after Turkey has joined the European Union! Here's a clue, as the TRNC, Turkey would be limited, but as a United Cyprus with two federated Constituent States.....well, you can guess the rest!

In conclusion, a recognised TRNC will only limit Turkey’s influence on the entire island of Cyprus. A United Federal Cyprus will reinstate Turkey’s guarantee and power over the entire island. Ask yourself this question: What if the TRNC was to gain recognition? It will obviously, automatically be a part of the EU by default, it would not be able to prevent any GC from moving into it and purchase land as a partner EU country/state, and because of its small population, its economic dependence on let’s say its GC EU neighbour the GC-ROC and working under complete EU laws and norms, Turkey’s influence on an EU-TRNC would be non-existent. Also, the TRNC and GC-ROC will obviously, due to their political and economic convergence as two EU member states probably chose to automatically unite under one umbrella. Therefore, by actually preventing the recognition of the TRNC, the Greek Cypriots are empowering Turkey’s influence on the entire island. Put it this way, if GC-ROC wanted to bluff Turkey and seriously disappoint it, they would recognise the TRNC tomorrow, but obviously the GC political mind only thinks in Micro Politics and not Macro!

Here's a Clue:
If the TRNC, after the current failure of talks between Talat and Christofias was to declare itself the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (FTSC), would UN Res 540 and 541 still stand? Would this new FTSC be isolated or be viewed as a step closure to integration and be accepted by EU circles? Think about what you say DT. As for me, I don’t really care as I have nothing to lose either from the Turkish Cypriots or Greek Cypriots (which may give you an indication as to who I may really be)

[Viewpoint]

You Said:

MrH I want to be serious for a second. If you don't understand some basic fundamentals about law and politics there's really not that much of a point entering into a discussion. I'm constantly having to point out basic points to you that an adult should know by now. Once you've grasped these issues then we can go deeper into a debate about who's wrong and who's right. For the time being you need to read up a little and figure out what the difference is of a segregated people living in a segregated piece of land where they form the majority population and their right for self determination.

Once again, ( and the recent court rulings should have made me pointing this out for you unnecessary) You cannot take another country's soveregn territory, throw out the majority population from that region, live in their homes and expect to ever be recognised as a separate entity.

F ace it, recognition will only happen once WE ALLOW IT. Although I'm starting to suspect you already know that otherwise why would you be working so hard to convince me to let you have it?

Here Goes.........

Hi DT,

Thanks for the above posting, I'm glad you've suddenly got serious. Let's talk business. Firstly, it is not the GCs that will, or can grant our independence as a Secession or Sucession state of Cyprus called the TRNC (If you know what that means!). Secondly, there are certain factors completely separate from Greek Cypriot Cyprus' power, but may actually be recalled at a later stage concerning Turkey's EU membership. Let's put it this way, if the 11 chapters affecting Cyprus EU entry were the last cards on the table before Turkey becomes an EU member state, I would bet my house in Girne that Turkey would accept any Cyprus deal - only if it was guaranteed EU entry. What does that tell us? Well, Turkey is willing to allow the Cyprus issue to drag on until it reaches that particular stage; the last 11 chapters that is. But, the real issue concerning Cyprus and the Greek Cypriots in particular is actually time, the here and now and the growing influence of the TRNC and its now known "Isolation" and the current talks process. This is why I always comment on the phrase "Time is running out". It trully is when talking about seeking a federal agreement only, when talking about the last straw or when talking about how silly the Greek Cypriots must have acted prior to endorsing the "Bi-zonal, Bi-communal Federal" structure in 1992, 2004 the Annan Plan and now again (Quite surprisingly) in the final showdown between Talat and Christofias - I find this entire scenario amazing and to good to be true. We, Turkish Cypriots, have pushed this federal Bi-zonal so far that even the EU and UN have endorsed the idea (perhaps not accepted it via a referendum result, but that now doesn't matter, does it?).

Therefore, we are now really at a point where if the Greek Cypriots reject this Bi-zonal Federal new plan being discussed again, the EU will have no choice but to make some kind of "Humanitarian" or "Economic, Political" incentive, move, for the Turkish Cypriots. Being left out in the cold again, as I am sure you know DT, is no longer an option for the EU. So, what does this mean? It basically means that the Greek Cypriots will have lost there long struggle to unite Cyprus under a deal that would not encompass a two constituent state federal governmental structure. It also means that our desire to see Cyprus split into two FEDERATED states, like the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus declared from 1977 to 1983, prior to the 1983 declaration fof the TRNC, would have finally been achieved. You see DT, Turkey never, ever meant or even expected the TRNC to be a recognised entity - they are not that stupid! They only meant it to act as a MORE-THAN what they had originally wanted, kind of like a bargaining chip, in order to make the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (which is what Turkey really wants) look more favourable to the international community and perhaps the GCs - and guess what? It's working! Even the UN and EU are seeking this type of solution that, in the past, was considered Taboo. We all know that the original 1960 constitution was "imperfect" DT, even Makarios knew that which is why he wanted the 13 point planned changes in 1963. However, as the changes, to the TCs, appeared more of a domineering strategy to unite with Greece, proven in 1974 with the Greek Military Junta of 15 July, Welcome Turkey's new phase of a Cyprus agreement in the form of a FEDERAL structure. The High level Agreement after 1974 was a blessing for Turkey. You see DT, Turkey doesn't really recognise the TRNC, it never has, and never will - you'd know about it if Turkey really intended it to be internationally recognised, think about it?

Anyway, getting back to today, believe it when I say that many Turkish Cypriots were as SHOCKED as the Greek Cypriots when Turkey endorsed the ANNAN PLAN and was prepared to see the TRNC dissolved into a Constituent/Federated State as part of a united Cyprus. But, since 2004, we have now understood the bigger picture of this new Federal structure that Turkey has so convincingly convinced the UN and EU into backing and supporting, that I have no doubt that the Turkish Cypriots in Northern Cyprus will give a resounding 95% "Yes" this time around.

This would mean that the ROC of today would be dissolved, if the GCs say "Yes" as well, and the island would shift into gear similarly to how the former Yugoslavia was founded on with a collection of five self-governing states, ready to legally part from one another under international law. But, now that you know what I mean, I have no doubt that the Greek Cypriots, as also read in the "Lobby for Cyprus" website, will say "OXI" again to any new Cyprus plan that fails short of today's existing GC-Controlled ROC Constitution and its many changes. Then, I would say that Partition will definitely be made legal, not by the GREEK CYPRIOTS and their wish for it Mr DT, but because the EU and UN will have been left in a situation where they will have to in front of the international community. But wait a minute, Turkey will not allow this to happen! Confused? Carry on reading. The late Papadopoulos shouldn't have endorsed the Annan Plan in New York 2004 before it (the plan) going out to a referendum to his own people. And now, Christofias shouldn't have moved in so quickly to kick start talks again based on exactly the same principals as what Clerides and Denktas did back in 2003. Unfortunately for Christofias and the Greek Cypriot people, Mr Talat ACTUALLY WANTS this solution! Turkey has always wanted a Federal structure for the island of Cyprus, ever since 1963. Why? Well, you'll have to wait until after Turkey has joined the European Union! Here's a clue, as the TRNC, Turkey would be limited, but as a United Cyprus with two federated Constituent States.....well, you can guess the rest!

In conclusion, a recognised TRNC will only limit Turkey’s influence on the entire island of Cyprus. A United Federal Cyprus will reinstate Turkey’s guarantee and power over the entire island. Ask yourself this question: What if the TRNC was to gain recognition? It will obviously, automatically be a part of the EU by default, it would not be able to prevent any GC from moving into it and purchase land as a partner EU country/state, and because of its small population, its economic dependence on let’s say its GC EU neighbour the GC-ROC and working under complete EU laws and norms, Turkey’s influence on an EU-TRNC would be non-existent. Also, the TRNC and GC-ROC will obviously, due to their political and economic convergence as two EU member states probably chose to automatically unite under one umbrella. Therefore, by actually preventing the recognition of the TRNC, the Greek Cypriots are empowering Turkey’s influence on the entire island. Put it this way, if GC-ROC wanted to bluff Turkey and seriously disappoint it, they would recognise the TRNC tomorrow, but obviously the GC political mind only thinks in Micro Politics and not Macro!

Here's a Clue:
If the TRNC, after the current failure of talks between Talat and Christofias was to declare itself the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (FTSC), would UN Res 540 and 541 still stand? Would this new FTSC be isolated or be viewed as a step closure to integration and be accepted by EU circles? Think about what you say DT. As for me, I don’t really care as I have nothing to lose either from the Turkish Cypriots or Greek Cypriots (which may give you an indication as to who I may really be)

Brilliant post MrH I applaud you.

[Piratis]

Firstly, it is not the GCs that will, or can grant our independence as a Secession or Sucession state of Cyprus called the TRNC (If you know what that means!)

And that is where I stopped reading your nonsense. The territory which you illegally occupy belongs by over 80% to Greek Cypriots. The native majority of all Cyprus, including the north part, are Greek Cypriots. You thought you can just ethnically cleanse the majority of Cypriots, replace them with Turkish Settlers, and make that territory yours? You are mistaken.

The Cyprus problem will be solved when Cyprus will be liberated from the foreign invaders.

[MrH]

Piratis,

Man, are you Stupid.

Sorry to say.

[Piratis]

Piratis,

Man, are you Stupid.

Sorry to say.

The whole world must be "stupid" then, because every country except Turkey recognizes that Republic of Cyprus has sovereignty over the whole island, and nobody recognizes that north Cyprus belongs to the Turks.

[Get Real!]

Firstly, it is not the GCs that will, or can grant our independence as a Secession or Sucession state of Cyprus called the TRNC (If you know what that means!).

And who might that be then you fairy god mother?

[kurupetos]

if the GCs say "Yes" as well

[Nikitas]

Mr H said:

".....Put it this way, if GC-ROC wanted to bluff Turkey and seriously disappoint it, they would recognise the TRNC tomorrow, but obviously the GC political mind only thinks in Micro Politics and not Macro! "

Indeed that would be a brilliant manouver, but in the conservative, very much "inside the box" mentality affecting our politicians (both GC and TC) such manouvers are not likely.

Since it takes two to tango, what has the TC side offered to entice such a bold move by the GCs? It could offer a fairer territorial arrangement which is more fair than the current 37-63 split imposed by an invading army. It could also guarantee that no Cypriot would lose his property rights and a whole bunch of painless (for the TRNC) measures which would prove that the future framework will be European.

Instead of such moves we hear hardliners like Eroglu and Nami pronounce that all settlers stay, that the territory arrangement they foresee is 29 per cent plus, that Turkish troops must remain forever on the island. And an ominous indication for the future is the insistence that all divergence from EU norms will be enshrined as EU primary law, ie they will be forever and not temporary, because as Mr Talat has said "the law favors the GCs, so we must go above the law"- a classic example of Turkish cynicism which was said with no regard for the effect it has on the other side.

The solution desired by each side has to be "sold" to the public of both communities. So far the TC side has not developed any sales pitch towards the GCs. During the Denktash years we had a stream of racist abuse, and with Talat we see arrogance minus the racism. Considering that under a solution a TC politician will most likely preside (without elctoral approval) over GCs you would expect some effort from their part. But in vain...

So Mr H, when it comes to thinking in the box, the two sides are pretty much equal.

[Viewpoint]

Mr H said:

".....Put it this way, if GC-ROC wanted to bluff Turkey and seriously disappoint it, they would recognise the TRNC tomorrow, but obviously the GC political mind only thinks in Micro Politics and not Macro! "

Indeed that would be a brilliant manouver, but in the conservative, very much "inside the box" mentality affecting our politicians (both GC and TC) such manouvers are not likely.

Since it takes two to tango, what has the TC side offered to entice such a bold move by the GCs? It could offer a fairer territorial arrangement which is more fair than the current 37-63 split imposed by an invading army. It could also guarantee that no Cypriot would lose his property rights and a whole bunch of painless (for the TRNC) measures which would prove that the future framework will be European.

Instead of such moves we hear hardliners like Eroglu and Nami pronounce that all settlers stay, that the territory arrangement they foresee is 29 per cent plus, that Turkish troops must remain forever on the island. And an ominous indication for the future is the insistence that all divergence from EU norms will be enshrined as EU primary law, ie they will be forever and not temporary, because as Mr Talat has said "the law favors the GCs, so we must go above the law"- a classic example of Turkish cynicism which was said with no regard for the effect it has on the other side.

The solution desired by each side has to be "sold" to the public of both communities. So far the TC side has not developed any sales pitch towards the GCs. During the Denktash years we had a stream of racist abuse, and with Talat we see arrogance minus the racism. Considering that under a solution a TC politician will most likely preside (without elctoral approval) over GCs you would expect some effort from their part. But in vain...

So Mr H, when it comes to thinking in the box, the two sides are pretty much equal.

Dont you feel that the GC side being recognized could afford to take the bold steps necessary to entice TCs to respond with the with the same bold moves, I really feel it will snow ball if one side took one brave step forward.

[DT.]

You Said:

MrH I want to be serious for a second. If you don't understand some basic fundamentals about law and politics there's really not that much of a point entering into a discussion. I'm constantly having to point out basic points to you that an adult should know by now. Once you've grasped these issues then we can go deeper into a debate about who's wrong and who's right. For the time being you need to read up a little and figure out what the difference is of a segregated people living in a segregated piece of land where they form the majority population and their right for self determination.

Once again, ( and the recent court rulings should have made me pointing this out for you unnecessary) You cannot take another country's soveregn territory, throw out the majority population from that region, live in their homes and expect to ever be recognised as a separate entity.

F ace it, recognition will only happen once WE ALLOW IT. Although I'm starting to suspect you already know that otherwise why would you be working so hard to convince me to let you have it?

Here Goes.........

Hi DT,

Thanks for the above posting, I'm glad you've suddenly got serious. Let's talk business. Firstly, it is not the GCs that will, or can grant our independence as a Secession or Sucession state of Cyprus called the TRNC (If you know what that means!). Secondly, there are certain factors completely separate from Greek Cypriot Cyprus' power, but may actually be recalled at a later stage concerning Turkey's EU membership. Let's put it this way, if the 11 chapters affecting Cyprus EU entry were the last cards on the table before Turkey becomes an EU member state, I would bet my house in Girne that Turkey would accept any Cyprus deal - only if it was guaranteed EU entry. What does that tell us? Well, Turkey is willing to allow the Cyprus issue to drag on until it reaches that particular stage; the last 11 chapters that is. But, the real issue concerning Cyprus and the Greek Cypriots in particular is actually time, the here and now and the growing influence of the TRNC and its now known "Isolation" and the current talks process. This is why I always comment on the phrase "Time is running out". It trully is when talking about seeking a federal agreement only, when talking about the last straw or when talking about how silly the Greek Cypriots must have acted prior to endorsing the "Bi-zonal, Bi-communal Federal" structure in 1992, 2004 the Annan Plan and now again (Quite surprisingly) in the final showdown between Talat and Christofias - I find this entire scenario amazing and to good to be true. We, Turkish Cypriots, have pushed this federal Bi-zonal so far that even the EU and UN have endorsed the idea (perhaps not accepted it via a referendum result, but that now doesn't matter, does it?).

Therefore, we are now really at a point where if the Greek Cypriots reject this Bi-zonal Federal new plan being discussed again, the EU will have no choice but to make some kind of "Humanitarian" or "Economic, Political" incentive, move, for the Turkish Cypriots. Being left out in the cold again, as I am sure you know DT, is no longer an option for the EU. So, what does this mean? It basically means that the Greek Cypriots will have lost there long struggle to unite Cyprus under a deal that would not encompass a two constituent state federal governmental structure. It also means that our desire to see Cyprus split into two FEDERATED states, like the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus declared from 1977 to 1983, prior to the 1983 declaration fof the TRNC, would have finally been achieved. You see DT, Turkey never, ever meant or even expected the TRNC to be a recognised entity - they are not that stupid! They only meant it to act as a MORE-THAN what they had originally wanted, kind of like a bargaining chip, in order to make the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (which is what Turkey really wants) look more favourable to the international community and perhaps the GCs - and guess what? It's working! Even the UN and EU are seeking this type of solution that, in the past, was considered Taboo. We all know that the original 1960 constitution was "imperfect" DT, even Makarios knew that which is why he wanted the 13 point planned changes in 1963. However, as the changes, to the TCs, appeared more of a domineering strategy to unite with Greece, proven in 1974 with the Greek Military Junta of 15 July, Welcome Turkey's new phase of a Cyprus agreement in the form of a FEDERAL structure. The High level Agreement after 1974 was a blessing for Turkey. You see DT, Turkey doesn't really recognise the TRNC, it never has, and never will - you'd know about it if Turkey really intended it to be internationally recognised, think about it?

Anyway, getting back to today, believe it when I say that many Turkish Cypriots were as SHOCKED as the Greek Cypriots when Turkey endorsed the ANNAN PLAN and was prepared to see the TRNC dissolved into a Constituent/Federated State as part of a united Cyprus. But, since 2004, we have now understood the bigger picture of this new Federal structure that Turkey has so convincingly convinced the UN and EU into backing and supporting, that I have no doubt that the Turkish Cypriots in Northern Cyprus will give a resounding 95% "Yes" this time around.

This would mean that the ROC of today would be dissolved, if the GCs say "Yes" as well, and the island would shift into gear similarly to how the former Yugoslavia was founded on with a collection of five self-governing states, ready to legally part from one another under international law. But, now that you know what I mean, I have no doubt that the Greek Cypriots, as also read in the "Lobby for Cyprus" website, will say "OXI" again to any new Cyprus plan that fails short of today's existing GC-Controlled ROC Constitution and its many changes. Then, I would say that Partition will definitely be made legal, not by the GREEK CYPRIOTS and their wish for it Mr DT, but because the EU and UN will have been left in a situation where they will have to in front of the international community. But wait a minute, Turkey will not allow this to happen! Confused? Carry on reading. The late Papadopoulos shouldn't have endorsed the Annan Plan in New York 2004 before it (the plan) going out to a referendum to his own people. And now, Christofias shouldn't have moved in so quickly to kick start talks again based on exactly the same principals as what Clerides and Denktas did back in 2003. Unfortunately for Christofias and the Greek Cypriot people, Mr Talat ACTUALLY WANTS this solution! Turkey has always wanted a Federal structure for the island of Cyprus, ever since 1963. Why? Well, you'll have to wait until after Turkey has joined the European Union! Here's a clue, as the TRNC, Turkey would be limited, but as a United Cyprus with two federated Constituent States.....well, you can guess the rest!

In conclusion, a recognised TRNC will only limit Turkey’s influence on the entire island of Cyprus. A United Federal Cyprus will reinstate Turkey’s guarantee and power over the entire island. Ask yourself this question: What if the TRNC was to gain recognition? It will obviously, automatically be a part of the EU by default, it would not be able to prevent any GC from moving into it and purchase land as a partner EU country/state, and because of its small population, its economic dependence on let’s say its GC EU neighbour the GC-ROC and working under complete EU laws and norms, Turkey’s influence on an EU-TRNC would be non-existent. Also, the TRNC and GC-ROC will obviously, due to their political and economic convergence as two EU member states probably chose to automatically unite under one umbrella. Therefore, by actually preventing the recognition of the TRNC, the Greek Cypriots are empowering Turkey’s influence on the entire island. Put it this way, if GC-ROC wanted to bluff Turkey and seriously disappoint it, they would recognise the TRNC tomorrow, but obviously the GC political mind only thinks in Micro Politics and not Macro!

Here's a Clue:
If the TRNC, after the current failure of talks between Talat and Christofias was to declare itself the Federated Turkish State of Cyprus (FTSC), would UN Res 540 and 541 still stand? Would this new FTSC be isolated or be viewed as a step closure to integration and be accepted by EU circles? Think about what you say DT. As for me, I don’t really care as I have nothing to lose either from the Turkish Cypriots or Greek Cypriots (which may give you an indication as to who I may really be)

So you started one thread telling me that partition and recognition of the trnc is inevitable and now you've started this post to tell me that Turkey never really wanted recognition yet the GC's would be wise to give up soveriegn territory of the Republic of Cyprus.

To top it all off you're Number 1 hypothesis to tie this all in is

the EU will have no choice but to make some kind of "Humanitarian" or "Economic, Political" incentive, move, for the Turkish Cypriots. Being left out in the cold again

So to get this straight.

Turkey doesn't want a recognised trnc
The Republic of Cyprus should pursue a recognised trnc
The international community will recognise the trnc anyway.

I will give you kudos on the fact that your posts just got more interesting although the accusation of drunk posting might stick for a while. I only have one thing to say to you once more.

The only POWER on this planet that can grant recognition to the trnc is the Government of Cyprus. That is because the trnc is squatting on territory that belongs to the Republic of Cyprus. The entire island of Cyprus falls under the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus and only the Republic of Cyprus can change that.

Now whether or not Turkey's objectives is a federated Cyprus or a partitioned Cyprus doesn't matter in this discussion. What matters is that Turkey is legally powerless when it comes to the territory of the Republic of Cyprus.