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For DT: "Just" and "Fair" PART 2

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:55 pm

MrH wrote:DT,

Basically that a BBF serves Turkey's needs of a resolution to the Cyprus question, and Christofias is sucked into it. While recognition of a "TRNC" would actually suit GC-ROC. A BBF deal will reinstate Turkey's rights over the entire island. A BBF will remove the 11 Cyprus influenced chapter on Turkey's EU entry and then will allow Turkey to flood the island when it does become a member. In a Nuttshell.


Not if that BBF is a true federation without foreign (turkish) guarantees. What rights will Turkey get in the BBF discussed by Christofias? The AP which provided for maritime, coastal, FIR and kitchen sink rights to Turkey failed to pass, what makes you think the President would present something similar for another vote when he'd know full well the outcome of a referendum. I will credit the President with one thing and that's his PR campaign in the EU and the intense campaign he is embarking on now to let the EU and the UN know who is to blame for the failure of this round of talks.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the EU might get tired of 80,000 odd TC's presenting themselves as a stumbling block for Cyprus, Greece and Turkey's relations?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:36 pm

The BBF model is anachronistic.

The Turks see the BBF as two seperate ETHNIC zones. This cannot be agreed by the EU because by implication it undermines one of the essential founding EU prinicples of the freedom of movement and settlement.

The BBF will be two zones but over time, under the EU, these zones will be ethnically dilluted. Basically, a BBF will become meaningless. People will tend to migrate to the economic centres anyway and unfortunately for the TC's they are mostly in the south! I fail to see how a 'BBF' can reinstate Turkeys rights over Cyprus. In the first place, what right does Turkey have to have 'rights' in a independent and sovereign Cyprus? If you mean then the TC community will be a Turkish government by proxy then you will rapidly see major problems happening not only in Cyprus, but in the wider region. Cyprus needs to be stable in order to satisfy the geo-political aims of the EU and the US in the region so any solution needs to satisfy those wider geo-political aims.

You see, whatever 'solution' Christofias and Talat agree to will be virtually meaningless within the EU because anything that goes beyond the basic founding principles of the EU will eventually be changed.
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Postby kurupetos » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:23 pm

MrH wrote:DT,

Basically that a BBF serves Turkey's needs of a resolution to the Cyprus question, and Christofias is sucked into it. While recognition of a "TRNC" would actually suit GC-ROC. A BBF deal will reinstate Turkey's rights over the entire island. A BBF will remove the 11 Cyprus influenced chapter on Turkey's EU entry and then will allow Turkey to flood the island when it does become a member. In a Nuttshell.


Flood it with what? :?
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Postby MrH » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:32 pm

Below (After Mikkie2's quote) is a Quote from the Cyprus Mail which clearly shows Turkey's growing influence in Europe, and if you can read between the lines, how Turkey will eventually get into the EU with or without a resumption of the Cyprus issue. A BBF would surely guarantee Turkey's influence over the ENTIRE island much more than let's say a two republic deal where the Greek Cypriots can apply its own internal Republic laws above EU law - if it wanted to! However, under a BBF model, and with VICE PRESIDENTIAL Veto rights for the Turkish Cypriots, let me tell you that the Greek Cypriot will lose any political battle at home or abroad - being within the EU. Of every Greek Cypriot politician I have spoken to lately, they all express their discontent with any type of BBF Model, where a good few have even said that they may even go back on their historical position of not accepting partition and actually endorse it for the sack of not being over run in the future by an EU-Member Turkey.


Mikkie2 Said:
You see, whatever 'solution' Christofias and Talat agree to will be virtually meaningless within the EU because anything that goes beyond the basic founding principles of the EU will eventually be changed.


That's only true until Turkey becomes an EU member state, then what? I would think about that again if I were you. Remember, the basic founding principals of the EU for an EU-Member Turkey would actually work for Turkey, but against the Greek Cypriots. Your population and influence will be so small, your demands for freedom of movement and settlement calls for today will be to your lose and not gain - you need to start thinking over the scope of the Turkish Cypriot community and consider 100Million Turks instead. Christofias may be a blind Socialist heading your government, but your GC policy policy makers in congress are not stupid.

Please read the following from the Cyrpus Mail....and may other newspapers that say exactly the same thing.......

An agreement was signed in mid-July between Turkey and the EU to guarantee safe passage of gas from 2014, the date of completion of the pipeline – a thousand kilometres across mostly mountainous terrain.

Turkey is the key to connecting the Middle East with Europe. Turkey is now a friend of Europe, and given EU president Barroso’s vote of thanks to Turkey for signing the agreement, their application for EU membership is now viewed favourably by the majority of EU member states and the media.

Turkey has water, the world’s next most valuable resource after oil. They have more than enough of the stuff and a pipeline going in the opposite direction, supplying drought ridden Syria, Israel, Jordan, etc. and the Republic of Cyprus if ever we were to humble ourselves sufficiently (a pipeline to the north under the sea is planned in the near future) would make Turkey the centre of the universe for many thirsty customers.
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Postby MrH » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:37 pm

Kurupetos said:
MrH wrote:
DT,

Basically that a BBF serves Turkey's needs of a resolution to the Cyprus question, and Christofias is sucked into it. While recognition of a "TRNC" would actually suit GC-ROC. A BBF deal will reinstate Turkey's rights over the entire island. A BBF will remove the 11 Cyprus influenced chapter on Turkey's EU entry and then will allow Turkey to flood the island when it does become a member. In a Nutshell.


Flood it with what?


Flooded with population and Economic investment. You see Kurupetos, like it or not, allow a BBF to formulate, Turkey's population migration may be limited in the short term but it's business influence and investment in the Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and then the Greek Cypriot Constituent State will be astronomical!
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Postby kurupetos » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:54 pm

MrH wrote:Kurupetos said:
MrH wrote:
DT,

Basically that a BBF serves Turkey's needs of a resolution to the Cyprus question, and Christofias is sucked into it. While recognition of a "TRNC" would actually suit GC-ROC. A BBF deal will reinstate Turkey's rights over the entire island. A BBF will remove the 11 Cyprus influenced chapter on Turkey's EU entry and then will allow Turkey to flood the island when it does become a member. In a Nutshell.


Flood it with what?


Flooded with population and Economic investment. You see Kurupetos, like it or not, allow a BBF to formulate, Turkey's population migration may be limited in the short term but it's business influence and investment in the Turkish Cypriot Constituent State and then the Greek Cypriot Constituent State will be astronomical!


I doubt that. It's more likely that the GCs will invest in the north. Turkey is about to go bankrupt if you didn't notice.
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Postby Kikapu » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:16 pm

DT. wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Thanks for not answering any of my points but rather giving us a lot of unrelated and wishful thinking comments.!

DT, it is your turn now.....good luck.! :lol:


Erm...i've read the previous posts but am a little confused on what point MrH is trying to make here. Any chance I can get a reminder of what exactly it is that MrH is trying to prove? :?


DT, let me cut to the chase here so not to waste anyone's time.

MrH's whole approach in the last couple of days has been nothing but playing "head games" with us with his reverse psychology in wanting us to believe and accept something we don't want that he wants, thinking that he can convince us in what he wants is not what we want therefore we will not want what he thinks we think we don’t want so that we will want it, even thought it is not what we want.! :lol:

If you did not get that, ask MrH to explain it to you.! :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:22 pm

Well done MrH.
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Postby Get Real! » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:25 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Well done MrH.

MrH has found a friend… the one with a view to Turkey! :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:27 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Well done MrH.

MrH has found a friend… the one with a view to Turkey! :lol:


Or is it the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
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