Cyprus-Forum.com

[wyoming cowboy]

Forget that, The TC's will have their rights and their civil rights will be protected through the EU courts. But when you insist that you should have just as much political power as the Gc majority then you are violating the rights of the GC' and thats a no no....

Heard of long summer nights we have a lot of those in the TRNC Kikapu, get help everyone can see you get off on giving every issue sexual connetations.

Look YOU dont get it Viewpoint, what makes you think that Turks even belong here? Why do you get a say in what kind of government we have?

How ignorant, firstly im not a Turk I am a Turkish Cypriot with Turkish origins and we own this island so we have a say so wise up and try to at least act intelligent tall order I know.

When did you suddenly own the island? Oh, when you illegally invaded?

438 years proves you wrong.

Hmm, 438 years of being a minority?! Are you kidding?! Us Greeks have been here longer as a non-minority my friend.

Does that give you any more rights than me?

[Byron]

And thats how you will loose half of the island jerkoff

Are you now threatening an EU Country ?

[NikosGB23]

your type of harmoney was us being discriminated against or man handled at crossing, being degraded at the airport or spat on...forced to live in ghettos for feear of our lives. You boast a great standard of living not bad for the harmoney you complain about. Turkey is here until a time that you see sense and understand that you have to share this island equally with the TCs under a BBF with political equality of the 2 states.

which we did for what many years before the invasion. you have brought discrimination upon yourselves through your invasions, greed, and selfishness. you act like you own this island, which you dont. you have no reason to be on this island. only for turkeys greed.

Listen to this guy he still cant get over the fact that we to own this island and that we have rights to it just as much as GCs. Once you get over yourself and stupid thoughts on the owneership of this island you will never be able to fathom out what unification means.

YOU DO NOT OWN THIS ISLAND, AND YOU NEVER WILL.
just because your an ilegally estabilished minority doesnt give you ANY power. you stupid fucking turks, i cant believe it.
YOU HAVE NO OWNERSHIP TO THIS ISLAND, US GREEKS HAVE BEEN ON CYPRUS SINCE ANCIENT TIMES, WEVE FOUGHT ALONGSIDE EGYPTAINS TO THE GREEKS OF THE MAINLAND 40 YEARS AGO. GREEK CYPRIOTS OWN THIS ISLAND. TURKEY DOES NOT.

[Tim Drayton]

If you are not planning to secede in teh future why insist on two "founding" states?

Is there any other state in the world composed of two or more founding states? None that I can think of. The USA is not composed of founding states and they have 50 of them. Neither is Switzerland, or the newly created Bosnia. There is one state within which there are federal states.

The UK hs decied to apply a measure of Devolution and created the Scottis parliament. Where is the prior dissolution of the UK? In fact such nonsense is unthinkable except in the case of Turkey that desperately wants to dissolve the RoC.

Kikapu may wish to correct me here with his superior knowledge, but it seems to me that the process by which the USA was created did involve the coming together of 'founding states'. Shortly after the Declaration of Independence was made, the Articles of Confederation were drafted. These articles would then come into effect once they were ratified by the individual states. This took almost five years to achieve, and not before they were rewritten from scratch.

To quote from Alistair Cooke's America p 132:

In the end, the influential men in the states came reluctantly to a common conclusion: they were not a nation, they were the Disunited States of America.

They agreed to meet and make the Articles work. For the meeting they chose Philadelphia. It was one of the few large cities; it was in the Middle Colonies; and it was the place where the Declaration of Independence had been signed, and where Washington had received the command of the Continental Army.

In the spring of 1787 they went with laggard steps to Philadelphia. They were big men where they came from; some of them were morbidly sensitive to the power and privilieges they might have to give up in the revised draft of the Articles. The first to arrive was an eager, greatly concerned thirty-six-year-old scholar politician from Virginia, James Madison. Nobody else appeared in the next ten days. Then they began to assemble in driblets and small delegations. Rhode Island never did show up. At last there was a quorum of seven states and they began.

I think this gives a sense of the long, slow process that it took to fuse the individual states, each of whose consent was required, into the union that we know today. Surely at that stage these individual states were in some sense 'founding states' which could easily have gone their own separate ways and become individual nation states?

[Piratis]

Separate territories coming together to form a federation is probably the norm, not the exception.

What absolutely never happened is for a federation to be formed by ethnically cleansing and dividing people along ethnic lines.

If TCs owned the north part of Cyprus, then they could do whatever they want with it. They could unite with another country to form a federation (or a unitary state), or just stay separate.

The issue here is that TCs do not own the north part of Cyprus. The north part of Cyprus is in fact the homeland of 5 times more GCs than TCs and GCs own more than 80% of the land.

The north part of Cyprus belongs to Republic of Cyprus and the claims of TCs over this territory are all illegal. Therefore the TCs have no right to decide what should and what shouldn't happen in a territory where they are a mere 18% minority.

[Nikitas]

Tim,

I read your post above and I would say the Union in the USA was formed by already pre existing states and the so called "territories". Today the USA is one single legal peronality in interntional law and there is no principle allowing any state to stand alone in international relations or claim for itselt the status of "component" or constituent etc.

There is no faster way to piss off an American diplomat but to suggest that each state should have its own embassies overseas. Even southerners who revere the confederate flag would find that suggestion insulting. As for internal movement that threaten the cohesion of the USA, see how the FBI dealt with the American Indian Movement and others who were in the slightest aiming at breaking the union regardless of their actual ability to do so. The Americans take their single and indivisible USA very seriously!

[Tim Drayton]

Tim,

I read your post above and I would say the Union in the USA was formed by already pre existing states and the so called "territories". Today the USA is one single legal peronality in interntional law and there is no principle allowing any state to stand alone in international relations or claim for itselt the status of "component" or constituent etc.

There is no faster way to piss off an American diplomat but to suggest that each state should have its own embassies overseas. Even southerners who revere the confederate flag would find that suggestion insulting. As for internal movement that threaten the cohesion of the USA, see how the FBI dealt with the American Indian Movement and others who were in the slightest aiming at breaking the union regardless of their actual ability to do so. The Americans take their single and indivisible USA very seriously!

Sure, they were pre-existing states, so in that sense the situation was very different from that proposed for Cyprus. I am no expert, but it appears to me that there was a period of limbo lasting about 5 years in which any of the individual states could have decided to go their own way. I would argue that, in a sense, we could say that this was a union created by 'constituent states'.

[EPSILON]

Its the GCs who are putting forward demands we can never accept.

Gcs puting demands?!!!Thy are just been asked continuesly to sign a surrounding agreement.Since 1974 Turkey consider itselve as a winner of a war and therefore the looser has to sign such an agreemnt.
Demands by G/cs?!!is this a new joke?

[wyoming cowboy]

there are a few states that when they joined the union made the agreement that htey could secede any time, the one that comes to mind is Texas..Another thing you have to consider is that being a 200 year old nation cohesion has been built through time..There was serious talk of giving the blacks a state or section and allowing them to run their own country back in the day. If there is no cohesion any agreement will fail

Tim,

I read your post above and I would say the Union in the USA was formed by already pre existing states and the so called "territories". Today the USA is one single legal peronality in interntional law and there is no principle allowing any state to stand alone in international relations or claim for itselt the status of "component" or constituent etc.

There is no faster way to piss off an American diplomat but to suggest that each state should have its own embassies overseas. Even southerners who revere the confederate flag would find that suggestion insulting. As for internal movement that threaten the cohesion of the USA, see how the FBI dealt with the American Indian Movement and others who were in the slightest aiming at breaking the union regardless of their actual ability to do so. The Americans take their single and indivisible USA very seriously!

Sure, they were pre-existing states, so in that sense the situation was very different from that proposed for Cyprus. I am no expert, but it appears to me that there was a period of limbo lasting about 5 years in which any of the individual states could have decided to go their own way. I would argue that, in a sense, we could say that this was a union created by 'constituent states'.

[Nikitas]

"you will loose half of the island "

will? What has been happening since 1974 other than loss. We got used to it. Enough stick, let us see some loukoum for a change. What are you promising?