Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Piratis take a step back just for a few seconds and show your human side tell us all do you support a BBF with political equality?

Of course I support political equality, but you don't.

By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/S ... /Verba.pdf

As far as BBF goes, it depends on what kind of BBF it is. There are many kinds of BBF that would suit us just fine.

2 founding states under one soverignty one identity and political eqaulity of the 2 states..this is what we have in mind. Whats your version?

Republic of Cyprus transformed into a federation with political equality between the citizens as it exists in every other democratic country.

One Cypriot state will be made by the territories where the (pre 1974 ethnic cleansing) majority are GCs, and the other state will be made by territories that TCs are the legal majority. Then there will be a strong central government elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

Cyprus to be fully independent with no foreign troops or foreign "guarantees", apart from those of UN and EU.

A perfectly fine BBF solution which will be accepted by the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

[Nikitas]

If you are not planning to secede in teh future why insist on two "founding" states?

Is there any other state in the world composed of two or more founding states? None that I can think of. The USA is not composed of founding states and they have 50 of them. Neither is Switzerland, or the newly created Bosnia. There is one state within which there are federal states.

The UK hs decied to apply a measure of Devolution and created the Scottis parliament. Where is the prior dissolution of the UK? In fact such nonsense is unthinkable except in the case of Turkey that desperately wants to dissolve the RoC.

[Piratis]

Piratis take a step back just for a few seconds and show your human side tell us all do you support a BBF with political equality?

Of course I support political equality, but you don't.

By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/S ... /Verba.pdf

As far as BBF goes, it depends on what kind of BBF it is. There are many kinds of BBF that would suit us just fine.

2 founding states under one soverignty one identity and political eqaulity of the 2 states..this is what we have in mind. Whats your version?

Republic of Cyprus transformed into a federation with political equality between the citizens as it exists in every other democratic country.

One Cypriot state will be made by the territories where the (pre 1974 ethnic cleansing) majority are GCs, and the other state will be made by territories that TCs are the legal majority. Then there will be a strong central government elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

Cyprus to be fully independent with no foreign troops or foreign "guarantees", apart from those of UN and EU.

A perfectly fine BBF solution which will be accepted by the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

what happened in the past happened exactly because you did not accept democracy and equality of all citizens without racist discrimination, but instead you attacked GCs seeking Ottoman style privileges on our expense.

You can continue with illegalities and crimes based on baseless imaginary doom scenarios. But then don't cry about the consequences of your crimes and illegalities.

[Kikapu]

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

The offer had to be better than what we have today

You got to be joking, right, VP.? What can be better than what you have in the north today as long as you want live in a "Corrupted Society". You don't have a democracy, since you can import people from Turkey, make them a "citizen" so to vote for the party in power. No respect for International laws. No respect for Human Rights. Free to traffic people from Syria into the EU via the north. Sell GCs properties that does not belong to you. No diplomatic relationship with any other country to speak of really, since the north is not recognised, and even MrH dropped the bomb by stating that Turkey never recognised the "trnc" which you had applauded MrH for his comments, therefore you not have to worry about pressures from foreign governments. No need for an economy to survive, since Turkey pays the bills. No need for your own army, since Turkey stands guard for you. No need to be in the EU to have EU passports and some benefits, since the RoC’s EU membership provides them to you, as well hospitals and all the products from the rest of the world, and the list goes on.

If I were to make an analogy of what you are in the north, I would say without trying to be offensive, that you are a "kept mistress" who has all the benefits of a wife, but without any of the responsibilities of a wife, and the husband is only keeping the "kept mistress" only for sex, just because he can afford to keep the mistress. Now, don't get me wrong, because I think the "kept mistress" has figured out, that if she is going to let a man fuck her anyway, why not get something back in return, like everything what the man's wife gets. She not even a whore because she is only fucking the lover boy in a committed relationship and no one else, as long as the husband of another woman (lover boy) is paying all her bills and fucking her at the same time. What can be better than that?. Again, the "kept mistress" is getting all the benefits of a wife would, without any of the responsibilities of a wife.

Well, all this is nice and dandy as long as the "kept mistress" has the looks, the body, and the sex appeal that turns her lover boy on, but there will come a time when all good things will eventually come to an end when the "kept mistress" will lose her looks, body, sex appeal, and so will the lover boy’s need in keeping her, because he can get another bimbo at much younger age, far more beautiful, even more sex appeal, therefore, the old "kept mistress" will be shown the door who has never learned to earn her own money, never been independent without the lover boy’s help, and now she has passed her prime with hardly any skills to get a decent job, and she can't even become a real whore to anyone, because she is now old, sagging tits, lose body parts, and zero sex appeal to try and start fresh.!

So I say to you VP, don't look for anything much better than what you have today, because you will not find it, but also don’t expect what you have today for it too last forever either. In the real world, you will have to work for what you want, and not expect others to take care of you while they are "fucking" you at the same time. You will want to make sure you have earned respect and power through participation in building your own living standards and the country you belong to, to make it become an "honest society" who has a future for your children. You can never have all these as a "kept mistress", because the light of your candle will eventually burn out, and since nothing ever lasts forever, when your candle light goes out, so would have been your usefulness.!

[Viewpoint]

If you are not planning to secede in teh future why insist on two "founding" states?

Is there any other state in the world composed of two or more founding states? None that I can think of. The USA is not composed of founding states and they have 50 of them. Neither is Switzerland, or the newly created Bosnia. There is one state within which there are federal states.

The UK hs decied to apply a measure of Devolution and created the Scottis parliament. Where is the prior dissolution of the UK? In fact such nonsense is unthinkable except in the case of Turkey that desperately wants to dissolve the RoC.

Why does there have to be examples?

[Viewpoint]

Piratis take a step back just for a few seconds and show your human side tell us all do you support a BBF with political equality?

Of course I support political equality, but you don't.

By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/S ... /Verba.pdf

As far as BBF goes, it depends on what kind of BBF it is. There are many kinds of BBF that would suit us just fine.

2 founding states under one soverignty one identity and political eqaulity of the 2 states..this is what we have in mind. Whats your version?

Republic of Cyprus transformed into a federation with political equality between the citizens as it exists in every other democratic country.

One Cypriot state will be made by the territories where the (pre 1974 ethnic cleansing) majority are GCs, and the other state will be made by territories that TCs are the legal majority. Then there will be a strong central government elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

Cyprus to be fully independent with no foreign troops or foreign "guarantees", apart from those of UN and EU.

A perfectly fine BBF solution which will be accepted by the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

what happened in the past happened exactly because you did not accept democracy and equality of all citizens without racist discrimination, but instead you attacked GCs seeking Ottoman style privileges on our expense.

You can continue with illegalities and crimes based on baseless imaginary doom scenarios. But then don't cry about the consequences of your crimes and illegalities.

Dont look upon it has crying but our fight for the right to survive in safety and without fear from a racist, manipulative and dangerous majority.

[Viewpoint]

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

The offer had to be better than what we have today

You got to be joking, right, VP.? What can be better than what you have in the north today as long as you want live in a "Corrupted Society". You don't have a democracy, since you can import people from Turkey, make them a "citizen" so to vote for the party in power. No respect for International laws. No respect for Human Rights. Free to traffic people from Syria into the EU via the north. Sell GCs properties that does not belong to you. No diplomatic relationship with any other country to speak of really, since the north is not recognised, and even MrH dropped the bomb by stating that Turkey never recognised the "trnc" which you had applauded MrH for his comments, therefore you not have to worry about pressures from foreign governments. No need for an economy to survive, since Turkey pays the bills. No need for your own army, since Turkey stands guard for you. No need to be in the EU to have EU passports and some benefits, since the RoC’s EU membership provides them to you, as well hospitals and all the products from the rest of the world, and the list goes on.

If I were to make an analogy of what you are in the north, I would say without trying to be offensive, that you are a "kept mistress" who has all the benefits of a wife, but without any of the responsibilities of a wife, and the husband is only keeping the "kept mistress" only for sex, just because he can afford to keep the mistress. Now, don't get me wrong, because I think the "kept mistress" has figured out, that if she is going to let a man fuck her anyway, why not get something back in return, like everything what the man's wife gets. She not even a whore because she is only fucking the lover boy in a committed relationship and no one else, as long as the husband of another woman (lover boy) is paying all her bills and fucking her at the same time. What can be better than that?. Again, the "kept mistress" is getting all the benefits of a wife would, without any of the responsibilities of a wife.

Well, all this is nice and dandy as long as the "kept mistress" has the looks, the body, and the sex appeal that turns her lover boy on, but there will come a time when all good things will eventually come to an end when the "kept mistress" will lose her looks, body, sex appeal, and so will the lover boy’s need in keeping her, because he can get another bimbo at much younger age, far more beautiful, even more sex appeal, therefore, the old "kept mistress" will be shown the door who has never learned to earn her own money, never been independent without the lover boy’s help, and now she has passed her prime with hardly any skills to get a decent job, and she can't even become a real whore to anyone, because she is now old, sagging tits, lose body parts, and zero sex appeal to try and start fresh.!

So I say to you VP, don't look for anything much better than what you have today, because you will not find it, but also don’t expect what you have today for it too last forever either. In the real world, you will have to work for what you want, and not expect others to take care of you while they are "fucking" you at the same time. You will want to make sure you have earned respect and power through participation in building your own living standards and the country you belong to, to make it become an "honest society" who has a future for your children. You can never have all these as a "kept mistress", because the light of your candle will eventually burn out, and since nothing ever lasts forever, when your candle light goes out, so would have been your usefulness.!

Your perverted mind knows no bounds a psychiatrist friend of mine looked over your last post and says you need real medical help.

Look Kikapu you still dont get it do you, add to the above thousands of more negatives it doesnt change the fact that we prefer it to being forced to live in a GC state run by GCs as a minority without safeguards and guarantees.

[Piratis]

Piratis take a step back just for a few seconds and show your human side tell us all do you support a BBF with political equality?

Of course I support political equality, but you don't.

By political equality we refer to the extent to which citizens have an equal voice over governmental decisions. One of the bedrock principles in a democracy is the equal consideration of the preferences and interests of all citizens. This is expressed in such principles as one-person/one-vote, equality before the law, and equal rights of free speech.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/S ... /Verba.pdf

As far as BBF goes, it depends on what kind of BBF it is. There are many kinds of BBF that would suit us just fine.

2 founding states under one soverignty one identity and political eqaulity of the 2 states..this is what we have in mind. Whats your version?

Republic of Cyprus transformed into a federation with political equality between the citizens as it exists in every other democratic country.

One Cypriot state will be made by the territories where the (pre 1974 ethnic cleansing) majority are GCs, and the other state will be made by territories that TCs are the legal majority. Then there will be a strong central government elected democratically by the Cypriot people.

Cyprus to be fully independent with no foreign troops or foreign "guarantees", apart from those of UN and EU.

A perfectly fine BBF solution which will be accepted by the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

So the offer is 18% and GC rule....noo thanks status quo with a strong TA presense and growing population is preferred. The offer had to be better than what we have today although unrecognized it is much preferred to allowing GCs the free hand they long for to discriminate and dominate TCs. What will you do when the political balance is firmly in the hands fo the Gcs and TCs start to suffer, I bet you will turn your back and remain silent just like the GCs did in 1963 to 1974 but then we will not have Turkey to beg for help as her hands will be tied. Do you really think we are that stupid to accept the UN and EU as guarantors? they are useless in times of crisis and it would be like asking us to sign our own death warrants.

what happened in the past happened exactly because you did not accept democracy and equality of all citizens without racist discrimination, but instead you attacked GCs seeking Ottoman style privileges on our expense.

You can continue with illegalities and crimes based on baseless imaginary doom scenarios. But then don't cry about the consequences of your crimes and illegalities.

Dont look upon it has crying but our fight for the right to survive in safety and without fear from a racist, manipulative and dangerous majority.

If any of your lame excuses were valid then why you came to live in an island which is inhabited by "racist, manipulative and dangerous" people?

The fact is that you are the racists, and you came here to oppress and take our lands and rights, and this is what you continue doing. At no point you accepted democracy and equality of Cypriot citizens without the racist discriminations you first applied against us during your brutal rule of our island.

[Nikitas]

"Why does there have to be examples?" asks Vp regarding federal systems.

Simply so that we do not waste time reinventing the wheel. Unless what you have in mind is entirely new, never tried before formula, in which case why should anyone trust you?

[Piratis]

"Why does there have to be examples?" asks Vp regarding federal systems.

Simply so that we do not waste time reinventing the wheel. Unless what you have in mind is entirely new, never tried before formula, in which case why should anyone trust you?

Nikitas, you follow successful examples when you want to have a successful result. The Turks don't want this. They don't want something fair and workable. They want something unfair and unworkable so it will fail. Here is what a Turkish politician said:

Türkmen, saying that he supported the Annan plan, voiced the opinion, “The Annan Plan had various flaws and was difficult to implement. If the plan could have been shown to be unworkable our basic aim of two states could have been achieved more easily, because it would have been necessary to find a formula within the EU. Just as Czechoslovakia was divided into two it would have been possible to divide Cyprus into two separate states.