Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

Well, I am glad we agree on SOMETHING

i know right.. when it comes to politics we disagree on 99.9999% of things but in general chat we agree on more

We only disagree over Cyprus politics Palio.

Everything else seems to be just fine.

Which is pretty funny actually, because we agree on pretty much everything except how we can live together, it is kind of an oxymoron in a way

[CBBB]

What are we just suddenly supposed to "forget" because DR J and CBBB says so?

The racist discrimination is fully alive and active all over the island and especially in your government, it is not something "left in the past" and it definitely is not to be disregarded.

Ad hominem arguments mean fuck all, you know that don't you?

Where is the racist discrimination when we are issuing ID cards, passports, giving free medical care. etc., etc., to TCs?

Yeah other than the fact that you have kicked us out of our own government by gunpoint and hijacked our nationality, everything else is just fine and dandy, thanks for the medical care as well, that was all we needed

When did this happen? Either before you were born, or you are an old git like the rest of us!

[paliometoxo]

Well, I am glad we agree on SOMETHING

i know right.. when it comes to politics we disagree on 99.9999% of things but in general chat we agree on more

We only disagree over Cyprus politics Palio.

Everything else seems to be just fine.

Which is pretty funny actually, because we agree on pretty much everything except how we can live together, it is kind of an oxymoron in a way

yeah aint that the truth.... which is why i believe both sides can live together just as long as the politics side of thigns is kept out of it..

[shahmaran]

What are we just suddenly supposed to "forget" because DR J and CBBB says so?

The racist discrimination is fully alive and active all over the island and especially in your government, it is not something "left in the past" and it definitely is not to be disregarded.

Ad hominem arguments mean fuck all, you know that don't you?

Where is the racist discrimination when we are issuing ID cards, passports, giving free medical care. etc., etc., to TCs?

Yeah other than the fact that you have kicked us out of our own government by gunpoint and hijacked our nationality, everything else is just fine and dandy, thanks for the medical care as well, that was all we needed

When did this happen? Either before you were born, or you are an old git like the rest of us!

What difference does it make?

How does my age make it any less/more relevant?

[The Cypriot]

Thanks for the effort Cypriot, truly appreciated, as opposed to the insults of the brainless fools who would have no capacity to construct a coherent reply to save their own lives

Thanks in return. There really is no point if the objective is simply to trade insults.

But still sad to see that you are totally oblivious to the main point I was trying to make as you seem to totally ignore the past and expect us to just jump into your laps and be a minority

This is something you will have to come to terms with eventually. I came to terms with being a minority of one some time ago. And - far from feeling oppressed an victimised - I feel liberated.

under a Greek government

The Greek government is in Greece. Please don't be sloppy with your descriptions. In this, north and south are certainly not equivalent. The north is governed by Turkey. No one is disputing this. The reverse is not true and you and the Turkish media repeating this mantra doesn't make it so.

just because you are made to be the "Free lands" and us the "occupied lands", sorry but that is not where we belong...

The south is free of Turkey's army. The north is contolled by it. It may not be where you belong, but it's an objective description of the status quo on Cyprus.

It is interesting that you mentioned "Communists to be a far greater threat than Turkey".

I read this real funny article the other day which I cant find at the moment, it was about how the Sampson supporters had gathered all the GC communists for execution just as Turkey invaded and all of a sudden they were turned into "comrades" and forced to help them fight off Turkey.

Funny how your "enemy" can suddenly become your "Allie" when bigger obstacles emerge on the way to your ultimate aim...

I cannot comment on any of the above. But it certainly doesn't take away from my point that the political climate in Cyprus has changed immeasurably from a generation ago.

This pretty much explains what was to come for the TC's if Turkey was defeated or had not intervened, neither of us would have what we have at the moment!

Yes. Turkey intervened, unilaterally, to restore the territorial integrity and independence of Cyprus. Once achieved Turkey had no right to stay.

I am sorry Cypriot but I/we have no reason to trust you nor we should have to.

A solution cannot be based purely on having to trust each other or on the EU laws or the fact that you are some super-civilised-communist-electing-Europeanised-fountain-of-modernity.

But it must come with free Cypriots trusting Turkey's army to do the right thing? Why do you expect this from them? Can't you see they have no reason to trust Turkey's army nor should they have to? So, now what?

It means nothing to me.

There could be a multi-staged solution where trust is gradually established until there is no need for safe guards and that's about as far as I would agree on.

This is something worth pursuing and agreeing on. But security until trust is established cannot be the responsibility of Turkey's army. Because most Cypriots don't trust it. And with good reason; certainly as good a reason as why you don't appear to trust the evil GCs.

Meaning, yes I would like me or my children to see a united and free Cyprus but have no reason to rush in to it just because we are being blackmailed socially and economically, while you are waving the big "freedom banana" from across the border

Free Cyprus has no choice in this regard. While Turkey's army rules the roost in the north it will not give an inch lending the regime there any form of legitimacy whatsoever. Sorry. And the free Cypriots wave their freedom at you because they are free to do so. They are free of Turkey's army. And it feels good.

THAT is the price we paid since the invasion, what was yours? Your homes? We lost homes too! Your relatives? We lost relatives too!
In return you got to hijack OUR government and OUR nationality along with the cherry topping of the EU membership.

This is a somewhat skewed version of history. EU membership, after the tragedy of 1974, was a miraculous achievement... not a cherry on top.

That to me, is far from being punished but more on the lines of being rewarded for trying to destroy your fellow citizens, and us punished for trying to survive in our own lands.

Again, this is a somewhat skewed version of history.

It's unhealthy to put all the blame for your woes on people who, having experienced the incredible upheaval of 1974, picked themselves up, dusted themselves off, and endured. You know as well as I, life is not fair. But everyone tries to make the best of it. If you feel you are being punished, perhaps you have justification, but look beyond just the people who it's convenient to blame. Because they did what they had to do.

And you expect us to trust these bodies who have brought us where we are?

You must be joking...

Likewise with Turkey's army. But, apparently, you're serious about keeping them in Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

EU law cannot guarantee any defence what so ever against ethnic nepotism (which is the core of the problems here)

Please explain why you believe free Cypriots, in the EU, in the 21st century, are more likely to be responsible for "ethnic nepotism" than any other citizens of the EU. Why you deserve more protection than any other people have in any other part of the free world?

hence why your cry for democracy is viewed by many, as nothing but a disguise to lure people into a sinister agenda.

What sinister agenda are you imagining? Do you imagine, free Cypriots, in the EU, in the 21st century – with the rest of the EU and the whole world watching – will march you to the gas chambers?

Can't you see your cry of 'sinister agenda' is viewed by far more people, by the rest of the world, as the excuse Turkey uses to keep hold of the north?

Honestly, shahmaran. Can't you see this?

Plus if the TA had not arrived we would still be living "on that era" as there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

That era was a whole generation ago. So much has happened to the free part of Cyprus since then. The Cypriot people have elected a "communist". Hear that? A "communist"! Who a generation ago was a far bigger enemy, a far greater threat than the Turk.

What more evidence do you need that things in Cyprus have changed. TOTALLY.

What happened from then on is another matter, but never the less does not make the cause of the initial actions taken any less relevant, which definitely must be considered when working on an agreement.

Yes. But this works both ways - if you insist in looking at things in terms of 'sides' rather than in terms of what is right and what is wrong; what is now and what was then.

You insist on Turkey's army remaining in Cyprus, on having intervention rights in Cyprus, when it was responsible for crimes against humanity in Cyprus. How can you expect anyone in their right minds to accept this?

So the army stays until we find a just solution that does not disregard our justice, as it has been the case for the past 35 years.

Every day the army remains is another day of injustice for the people of Cyprus, as a whole. 35 years and counting.

We are being punished for something that is out of our control.

Now you are making sense. We, the Cypriot people, as a whole, are being punished for something out of our control.

Only, it is in our control now. For the whole world accepts an agreement BY and FOR Cypriots. For if we speak with one voice, and demand, as the president demands, that Turkey's army go, then the pressure on Turkey to do so would be ovewhelming. And the Cyprus problem would be no more.

It clearly shows how bias the EU and the UN have been treating this matter and it is really naive for you to expect that we would accept a solution only based up on the requirements of the same bodies that have been punishing us unjustly for decades.

You think Cypriots now living in the south and elsewhere haven't been punished for 35 years too, shahmaran? By the EU, UN, US and by whoever else has refused to lift a finger to remove a foreign army legally obliged to restore the territorial integrity and independence of Cyprus?

Don't you get it? The rest of the world isn't biased. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit.

It is just not going to happen, either the world recognizes what REALLY happened here and finds a solution accordingly or we stay as we are for however long it takes, or maybe even become fully annexed by Turkey.

The world is recognising what really happened. It recognises what is still happening, and it recognises Turkey's army will use any and every excuse, including the demons in your head, to remain on Cyprus illegally until such time Cypriots gift Turkey part of their sovereign territory.

But Cypriots had to do that before, in order for Britain to leave. Cypriots will not do so again.

So if Turkey is going to annex part of the island, let her do so, but let her do so illegally, without the world's approval; not legally, with the Cypriot people's approval. For that will never happen.

Thanks for the effort Cypriot, truly appreciated, as opposed to the insults of the brainless fools who would have no capacity to construct a coherent reply to save their own lives

But still sad to see that you are totally oblivious to the main point I was trying to make as you seem to totally ignore the past and expect us to just jump into your laps and be a minority under a Greek government just because you are made to be the "Free lands" and us the "occupied lands", sorry but that is not where we belong...

It is interesting that you mentioned "Communists to be a far greater threat than Turkey".

I read this real funny article the other day which I cant find at the moment, it was about how the Sampson supporters had gathered all the GC communists for execution just as Turkey invaded and all of a sudden they were turned into "comrades" and forced to help them fight off Turkey.

Funny how your "enemy" can suddenly become your "Allie" when bigger obstacles emerge on the way to your ultimate aim...

This pretty much explains what was to come for the TC's if Turkey was defeated or had not intervened, neither of us would have what we have at the moment!

I am sorry Cypriot but I/we have no reason to trust you nor we should have to.

A solution cannot be based purely on having to trust each other or on the EU laws or the fact that you are some super-civilised-communist-electing-Europeanised-fountain-of-modernity.

It means nothing to me.

There could be a multi-staged solution where trust is gradually established until there is no need for safe guards and that's about as far as I would agree on.

Meaning, yes I would like me or my children to see a united and free Cyprus but have no reason to rush in to it just because we are being blackmailed socially and economically, while you are waving the big "freedom banana" from across the border

THAT is the price we paid since the invasion, what was yours? Your homes? We lost homes too! Your relatives? We lost relatives too!

In return you got to hijack OUR government and OUR nationality along with the cherry topping of the EU membership.

That to me, is far from being punished but more on the lines of being rewarded for trying to destroy your fellow citizens, and us punished for trying to survive in our own lands.

And you expect us to trust these bodies who have brought us where we are?

You must be joking...

Great post Shah, couldnt agree more.