Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

I don't know where you pulled Number 2 out from but I doubt any GC would ever support such a position

I believe that a major problem for GCs to accept a solution is the perceived threat to their "way of life" and the existence of a GC sovereign, EU-member state. Papadopoulos's key argument in rejecting the Annan plan was that he had received such a state and would not be prepared to end up with just an unrecognised "community".

People (rightly) always think of the worst case scenario i.e. the downside risk of any solution. If this worst case scenario (i.e. where the federation fails) is that we effectively keep the RoC (or say the GRoC) but with an area of 80%, full security, demilitarisation etc and in return TRNC is reduced to 20% and recognised, then I believe that a majority of GCs (i.e. the "missing" 26%) would say Yes at referendum.

For example, I voted No in 2004 but I would say Yes to such a plan (same with a lot of people I know). I emphasise that is the worst case scenario i.e. we would try the BBF but if this fails we will be in a much better position than we would have been if the Annan plan arrangements failed.

I think that this is the ONLY way of getting 2 positive votes at referendum (it also has a fundamental element of fairness in it, with respect to proportionate land sharing). If you have a better idea, please enlighten us.

Yes, my better idea is that I am not gifting one pebble of this island to anyone with my signature.

[Tony-4497]

Yes, my better idea is that I am not gifting one pebble of this island to anyone with my signature.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that GCs can ever gain full control over 100% of Cyprus.

Even under the 1960 constitution, the return to which TCs can ENFORCE at any time, TCs had "super-rights" including veto on everything (and a third of all jobs in the public sector etc, not to mention Turkey's guarantor status).

This is the best that could IN THEORY be achieved for GCs (although almost impossible in practice) - but I am not sure that a majority of GCs would prefer the above to an 80/20 federal (or even confederal structure).

Unfortunately, our incapable and immature leaders fucked us by first signing the 1960 agreement that allowed an 18% minority to become "politically equal" to the 82% majority and subsequently by giving Turkey the excuse to invade.

[DT.]

Yes, my better idea is that I am not gifting one pebble of this island to anyone with my signature.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that GCs can ever gain full control over 100% of Cyprus.

Even under the 1960 constitution, the return to which TCs can ENFORCE at any time, TCs had "super-rights" including veto on everything (and a third of all jobs in the public sector etc, not to mention Turkey's guarantor status).

This is the best that could IN THEORY be achieved for GCs (although almost impossible in practice) - but I am not sure that a majority of GCs would prefer the above to an 80/20 federal (or even confederal structure).

Unfortunately, our incapable and immature leaders fucked us by first signing the 1960 agreement that allowed an 18% minority to become "politically equal" to the 82% majority and subsequently by giving Turkey the excuse to invade.

In my fantasy world the EU accepted an island as a member not half an island. The UN has one vote for Cyprus at the assembly not 2. There is only one President of Cyprus, one govt and one parliament.

You and your pragmatist friends want to start making plans for a few more govts on this island go right ahead...in my mind thats treason against your country.

[Get Real!]

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that GCs can ever gain full control over 100% of Cyprus.

The other side's fantasy is even more remote so I’m putting all my money on ours…

[Tony-4497]

In my fantasy world the EU accepted an island as a member not half an island. The UN has one vote for Cyprus at the assembly not 2. There is only one President of Cyprus, one govt and one parliament.

Don't get me wrong - I do not support 2 states. Consider, however, that the member that the EU accepted is the 1960 RoC, which indeed has 1 President but also has 1 Vice-President and that the former cannot even fart without the latter's express prior consent. It is not certain that TCs (hence Turkey) will continue to be "absent" from the 1960 RoC indefinitely.

We have got used to being masters of our own country (even though reduced) and society, without suffering from Turkey's interference - and prospered. The solution that Christofias is currently negotiating is catastrophic. If accepted, it would put our way of life at risk and in return we would get very little - the outcome would eventually be partition at 70:30 -and that is IF we get anything back (not to mention losing our sovereign and EU member status).

Allowing the status quo to continue indefinitely would also be stupid - if we wait for 20-30 years when Turkey MAY be ready to make concessions to enter the EU, it will be too late. Settlers would be 3rd generation (so no chance of sending many back) and probably the majority of the island's population - so any deal at that time cannot be be that good for us either.

We need to agree amongst ourselves what an acceptable/ fair solution is and push hard for it now- blocking Turkey's EU path NOW if she does not grant us this solution. The best way to ensure TCs stay in the new Cyprus (hence 1 State as you want) is to ensure their land/resources share is not more than they proportionately deserve (the opposite is a motive for them to seek partition).

[Get Real!]

In my fantasy world the EU accepted an island as a member not half an island. The UN has one vote for Cyprus at the assembly not 2. There is only one President of Cyprus, one govt and one parliament.

Don't get me wrong - I do not support 2 states. Consider, however, that the member that the EU accepted is the 1960 RoC, which indeed has 1 President but also has 1 Vice-President and that the former cannot even fart without the latter's express prior consent. It is not certain that TCs (hence Turkey) will continue to be "absent" from the 1960 RoC indefinitely.

We have got used to being masters of our own country (even though reduced) and society, without suffering from Turkey's interference - and prospered. The solution that Christofias is currently negotiating is catastrophic. If accepted, it would put our way of life at risk and in return we would get very little - the outcome would eventually be partition at 70:30 -and that is IF we get anything back (not to mention losing our sovereign and EU member status).

Allowing the status quo to continue indefinitely would also be stupid - if we wait for 20-30 years when Turkey MAY be ready to make concessions to enter the EU, it will be too late. Settlers would be 3rd generation (so no chance of sending many back) and probably the majority of the island's population - so any deal at that time cannot be be that good for us either.

We need to agree amongst ourselves what an acceptable/ fair solution is and push hard for it now- blocking Turkey's EU path NOW if she does not grant us this solution. The best way to ensure TCs stay in the new Cyprus (hence 1 State as you want) is to ensure their land/resources share is not more than they proportionately deserve (the opposite is a motive for them to seek partition).

Tony, you come across like such a washed-out and knackered dude… but don’t worry, because there are many others happy to continue the fight for you who will NEVER accept Turkey’s blackmails no matter what!

Unkie GR, is here for YOU!

[Tony-4497]

Tony, you come across like such a washed-out and knackered dude… but don’t worry, because there are many others happy to continue the fight for you who will NEVER accept Turkey’s blackmails no matter what!

Unkie GR, is here for YOU!

I take great comfort in this, young man..

I am less comfortable about what Christofias is doing and the fact that there is a good chance a plan similar to Annan might just make the 50% mark, if cleverly sold (and with the certain full support of Akel and Disy leadership).

Unless GCs look for other ways forward, that's where we will end up.. despite your high levels of energy..

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