Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

This is where your memory has let you down and as you do make things up as you go along I have even accepted 18% for a clean break but I do not think this would be accepted by the majority of TCs, you can stimulate your own mindset by painting pictures of our demise but we have been around for 450 years and we will be around for a lot longer now that we have our own space recognized or not its worth much more than being exposed to GC injustice and discrimination.

No VP, my memory has not let me down as always since my memory is sharp as a tack. If anything has let anyone down, is the lack of your ability to read and understand the English language, which has let you down many times in the past. I said that before 2004 you would not have considered a 18%, because as far as you were concerned, the Cyprus problem was solved with you (Turkey) holding 37%. But since 2004 when the RoC became a EU member, all of a sudden the Cyprus problem was not so quite over yet, hence the fact in your willingness to settle for a legal ownership of 18% over illegal occupation of 37%. As I've stated earlier, your "offer" may have been somewhat agreeable to the RoC before 2004, but right now, I really do not think you are in a position to make such an offer when you don't have any legal claim to the north what so ever, hence the fact the talks are based on Federated states under one Federal government and not as two founding states (virgin birth) which would give you ownership of what ever land is in the north's "founding state".

One point I do agree with you on is the time does not stand still and opinions do change as other nations realize that unification will not be reached and that they can benefit from the current division or recognition, they will do what they wish not what some spoilt 800.000 GCs demand. You are one to count your chickens before they hatch, I am not and prefer to know that we are here for the long haul and that if nothing better is put before us that we can commit to we will continue as we are which is far better than anything we would be forced into and exposed to by GCs.

Do as you please, but also know that time is not on your side. Your 450 year history in Cyprus as a Cypriot will be forever lost with your present mindset and all you would become eventually, is a diluted Turk which will be seen by the RoC as nothing but Illegal Aliens, and in time they will leave the island when Turkey's interests in wanting to be in the EU will outweigh on holding onto that piece of land in Cyprus, which is miniscule in relationship to overall territory of Turkey, you would have helped in a major way to turn Cyprus into a "Greek" island.

If the RoC in demanding True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws to be the norm in Cyprus for all Cypriots is the demand of “spoiled” 800,000 GCs according to you, then good luck in finding anyone in the 27 EU club nations to support you in denying the RoC of such rights but instead support your version of "Democracy" which is nothing but a Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights and International laws. If your demands were agreeable to the UN and the EU, you would not be in isolation today but instead a recognised country with all the rights of any other nation. Clearly, you are not, therefore what the RoC will demand as a full member of the EU are very legitimate, because your demands cannot be accepted by any of the "spoiled" 450 million citizens in the EU.

Ho your foaming is clear for all to see we all read where you get excited and how you love running the TCs into the ground at every opportunity but remember Turkey is a tough cookie and always performs best under pressure, will you suprised if they come up smelling roses and the GCs walk away with nothing yet again???? Will you make some slimey excuse and avoid saying that I was right,never under estimate Turkey it was a mistake in 1974 and will be the same in 2009.

I only challage the ideas and foolish propagandas of Fascists NeoPartitionist and the "trnc", since it seems like in everything you do in the north tends to go against UN resolutions, EU Principles and against International Laws, and you expect me to accept all this rubbish and not make any comments, and when I do, you label it as "foaming in the mouth". Well, I can assure you, if the actions by the above culprits were honourable, you will find me in support of their policies to bring the TC's into the 21st century world and not the world you want to keep them in, which is the 16th century ideology. No my friend, I do not take pleasure in tearing you and all the Fascist down with all your Racist and Fascistic ideologies with constant lies, exaggerations and deceptive propaganda for my own enjoyment, but rather to show others that not all TCs are like your kind and that there are many decent TCs who do accept the values of the west and want to be part of the EU as equal citizens and with all their right preserved as equal citizens of Cyprus as well. We do not need to deny others their rights so that we can have more than our next door neighbour in the same country and expect to be treated fairly without hostilities as the case was in the 1960's. Repeating past mistakes can only mean repeating past problems. I will not allow that to happen, and that's why I'm always defending the interests of the decent TCs who do not share your views and your intentions of remaining in a "corrupted society" that your kind has built in the north which has gotten you nowhere other than to be treated as an outcast by the rest of the world. Decent TCs deserve much more than what your kind have prepared for them. It's time to move forward and leave the past behind, and that's what we want and that’s what we will get.!

The EU will sell their mothers if they are to benefit, their hands are burnt by the hot potatoe you put there, the first opportunity and they will happily accept derrogrations to drop you like a hot potato you really are. Man made laws can always be changed and amended, its standard practice and not written in stone. If the EU can back the AP they can do many things to accomadate a solution.

I thought you were going to surprise and shock me by stating that it is the "trnc" who makes up the EU laws. Now I am disappointed to learn that it is not the case.!

You overestimate the "trnc" worth to the EU in order for them to support your policies for a settlement. No matter how the RoC gotten into the EU is no longer a debate worth talking about, other than to say, the EU knew what they were doing in allowing the RoC into the union before a settlement. By doing what they did, is the only reason why there are peace talks, otherwise it would be as it was before 2004, and the second reason as to why the RoC was allowed to join, was to have a veto power over Turkey to level the playing field in finding a solution, and the EU had succeeded with their plans. All that remains to happen, is for Turkey to accept the present political atmosphere and everyone can be friends in the EU as soon as Turkey reforms her country, which I for one will support their membership in the EU where as you will not, so that you can maintain your "spoils of war". That's the difference between us, where I'm in favour of us earning our rights and our place in a civilized society as a EU citizens and as a equal citizens in Cyprus, where as you want to maintain injustices in place for your own benefit and wanting to be part of the EU at the same time. Sorry, no can do and if you haven't learned that you will not get what you want, especially after 2004, it is no wonder why you want to settle for a 80%-20%. If you want to continue with your present Fascistic views, then I would recommend that you take the 80%-20% if it's offered to you, but somehow, it will not be and your counter offer can only be in the single digits if it were to have any appeal to the RoC, specially after 2004. But even if the single digit offer was to be acceptable to the RoC, it will mean that the "trnc" and Turkey will be vetoed out of the EU by the RoC. Timing is everything sometimes and the train for your present offer left the station in 2004.........sorry.!

I disagree with everthing you say and you are proof enough why there will never be a solution, our differencies are to far to wide to bridge and forcing us to live in a united Cyprus without our commitment would be explosive as it is not the knife we oppose but the surgeon that will place that knife to our throats at the first opportunity. If the talks fail things will change completely and we will pursue other options it doesnt matter if we are recognized or not the current situation is preferred to unification with a crazied surgeon.

Sure you disagree. What else can you do when you cannot make counter argument just because I have you cornered. You just want to make excuses for everything to avoid peace, unless you can hold onto your "spoils of war". Too bad for you, no such agreement can be agreed on so your choices are very limited in what you can get away with in 2009. Learn to accept it, or else accept the present situation in the north and stop complaining about everything. Just never forget, that the TCs do not control their own destiny at the moment, but only the RoC and Turkey. The only way the TCs will have a say so in Cyprus will be in a unified Cyprus as in the BBF plan I gave you before. You can talk about the "surgeon and the knife" if you want, no matter how meaningless of a phrase that may be, but in a unified Cyprus, you can choose to be part of that "surgeon’s team" to help cut out the "cancer" who wants to destroy Cyprus, and we all know who the "cancers" are, don't we, VP.! You can choose to be a team player or be the "cancer" instead. Anything else, is just an excuses for a Partition.

Once you realize this facts you will understand why safeguards and guarantees are necessary to stop that surgeon from perfroming operations as he sees fit.

I understand perfectly, that by asking for more rights than others will automatically make you a political minority from a numerical minority, and the RoC is willing to do that, if that is your desire, which is not, because you want all those rights at the expense of others regardless, but what the RoC will not allow you to have, is create a apartheid system of government and country where you can rule over majority Cypriots as a numerical minority. AP gave you that, but any future new settlement plans will not. Once you accept this reality, you can start to see thing much more clearly. The problem with you is, you got conned by the AP making you believe you were entitled to all these demands, but 2004 changed all that. Different times require different ideas, and the ideas of the AP is long DEAD.!

[iain]

I presume most of the apologists for pseudintelligencia on here cannot remember the atrocities,nay attempted genocide by EOKA prior to 1974

[Get Real!]

I presume most of the apologists for pseudintelligencia on here cannot remember the atrocities,nay attempted genocide by EOKA prior to 1974

You can read all about the genocide on Cyprus right here...

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle04.htm

[Viewpoint]

NikosGB23

I am sticking to what I have proposed. And is it our fault that TCs are a minority? Every country has a minority and if you can't handle being a monority than leave. And if you can't trust us, the feelings mutual.

We are not going anywhere so get over it, the mistrust is of course mutual we understand you but you do not appear to want to understand us. Being a numerical majority does not make us any less a partner in 1960 or 2009, this is something you have to understand and maybe then you will be able put forward propositions we can agree to.

If your not willing to put ethnical differences aside than thats your problem as well. Facts are facts. youre a minority and your going to have to deal with being a minority. This is a Greek island by nature. But we've accepted the fact that there are Turks here as well and have tried to cope with them but Turkey wants more. Thats the real problem.

This is not a Greek island never was never will be, your previous post stated it was a Cypriot island arent you contradicting yourself? All we want is what the UN and the rest of the world support a BBF with politcal equality of the 2 states, yet you want want it all the whole island under the control of Cypriots who happen to be 90% GCs.

So if the only answer is having an ethnically greek-run peaceful cyprus, than so be it. I'm no goverment offical or anything but you must agree, the having a TC run state wouldnt be any better

As I stated before 2 states under a BBF will suit us just fine but this is something GCs object to has this is not what they want a GC state run by GCs for GCs, a free hand to dominate and discriminate against TCs as they wish.

I did say it was a Cypriot island, which it is. But ethnically it is Greek. you dont even understand my point. I was in no way contradicting myself. The island has clear evidence of having a greek ethnical presence. Yes, it was ruled by venetians, arabs, and turks at one point, but the greek culture has remained and is its strongest today. youre the one bringing ethnicity into this, so i will too. I believe that Cyprus should have one identity, which cypriot, GC, TC aside. but it's people like you who seem to think that just because turkey has a presence their they have a say in everything.

and the only reason why TCs to have 2 states is so they can try to pick apart everything the GC state does and find more reasons to invade. the TC state wont be TC, it will just be a Turkish state. if all you have to say about having a GC state is the fact that turks will be descriminated against then think of something new. GCs will be descriminated agains as well.

Lets face it, all the GCs want is 1 peaceful country. thats it. and all the TCs want is another excuse is to get turkey involved in someone elses business

Nikos Sampson is it? first you claim sthenticity should go out of the window to get what you want then continue to contradict yourself yet again by claiming the island is ethnically Greek for gods sake make up your mind you cannot chage as it suits. This island was never Greek and will never be we will make sure of that. You are a bastardized people so many other ethnic groups have pssed through Cyprus that your "Greekness" at best is very doubtful and shaddy but hey whatever makes you happy.

This sudden surge of we are all Cypriots spouted out by GCs doesnt cut it with TCs it is to little to late this ideology will only evlove over many years of trust and understanding which is non exsistent between our 2 communities. As for Turkeys presence, you keep them here by your past and present actions, what do you expect us to do when when you have 20.000 troops and 120.000 armed reservists? they have acted as a deterrant for over 35 years and will continue to do so until or if ever a solution is found.

A 2 state BBF solution is backed by the world, so isnt it time you got used to the idea? If it shte guarantees you are worried about then dont do anything wrong and no one will intervene, what are you afraid of yourselves? do you think that after all the bad blood that has passed between us we should just trust you?

Why do GCs want 1 peaceful county? so they can use their numerical advantage to push us to one side discriminating against us turning us into second class citizens with no say in our own future. This we will never accept and unless safeguards and guarantees are firmly in place the current status quo can continue. So time you GCs wised up and understood you have equal partners in the north with whom you can share the whole island but not by stamping all over them and bruching them under the carpet we demand a guaranteed say in our own future,one you cannot take way when you wish.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Sure you disagree. What else can you do when you cannot make counter argument just because I have you cornered. You just want to make excuses for everything to avoid peace, unless you can hold onto your "spoils of war". Too bad for you, no such agreement can be agreed on so your choices are very limited in what you can get away with in 2009. Learn to accept it, or else accept the present situation in the north and stop complaining about everything. Just never forget, that the TCs do not control their own destiny at the moment, but only the RoC and Turkey. The only way the TCs will have a say so in Cyprus will be in a unified Cyprus as in the BBF plan I gave you before. You can talk about the "surgeon and the knife" if you want, no matter how meaningless of a phrase that may be, but in a unified Cyprus, you can choose to be part of that "surgeon’s team" to help cut out the "cancer" who wants to destroy Cyprus, and we all know who the "cancers" are, don't we, VP.! You can choose to be a team player or be the "cancer" instead. Anything else, is just an excuses for a Partition.

How can you counter argue something which does not exist, your ideology is not only dangerous but is totally defeatist play into the hands of the GCs, you whole arguement if firmly in favour of GC demands not once have you backed any of our concerns, you belittle and laugh off anything we put forward but what you dont realize isthat unless these concerns are dealt with as you do, you will get jack shit...no solution, no land, no return of Turkish army, no return of new generation TCs etc etc..you do more harm to GC TC relations than you will ever know.

Do you understand the Surgeon analogy? you obviously dont...

I understand perfectly, that by asking for more rights than others will automatically make you a political minority from a numerical minority, and the RoC is willing to do that, if that is your desire, which is not, because you want all those rights at the expense of others regardless, but what the RoC will not allow you to have, is create a apartheid system of government and country where you can rule over majority Cypriots as a numerical minority. AP gave you that, but any future new settlement plans will not. Once you accept this reality, you can start to see thing much more clearly. The problem with you is, you got conned by the AP making you believe you were entitled to all these demands, but 2004 changed all that. Different times require different ideas, and the ideas of the AP is long DEAD.!

Of course we have seen that the AP was rejected this does not mean that it is still not around, the majority of the AP plan will be in any new plan, dont for one minute think everything will be scraped, certain issues will be reviewed to find areas that can swing a GC YES but the balance is proving more difficult as every concession to the GCs means that the TCs YES will become a resounding NO.

I honestly get the impression you will be very disappointed with a new revamped version of the AP call tiwhat you wish but the world does not see things 100% like GCs when the shit hits the fan we to will get some of our demands which you I am sure will not like but of course like any compromise neither side will get all of their demands.

[repulsewarrior]

I presume most of the apologists for pseudintelligencia on here cannot remember the atrocities,nay attempted genocide by EOKA prior to 1974

welcome iain,

why single out EOKA? are you suggesting that "Turks" have murderous fanatics we can take pride in?

we are Human iain, this is the lesson of the Great War (WWI)
our enemies are: Hunger, Disease, Ignorance, Disaster
Lest We Forget
niggers don't hang from trees anymore, thank goodness
think again before writing off a Heritage thousands of years old
just because you have put a label "Greek" on it.

cheers!

[repulsewarrior]

vp

...please read my manifesto.

[Viewpoint]

repulse I have read it in the past and told you that anything were there are cantons dont work for me, a clean break is the best way forward as the both sides keep on proving they have absolutely no common ground on the key issues and that they will not find a solution even after 100s of years of negotiations.

[Nikitas]

VP do you have any evidence, any at all, that Turkey would ever agree to a fully and truly independent duo of nations on its south so called "soft underbelly"?

Can you provide this evidence? What I hear is a stress on the separate part, but no mention of independent as well as separate. You are dreaming of a revolution in the thinking of the guys that control Turkey. Not likely to ever happen.

[Viewpoint]

VP do you have any evidence, any at all, that Turkey would ever agree to a fully and truly independent duo of nations on its south so called "soft underbelly"?

Can you provide this evidence? What I hear is a stress on the separate part, but no mention of independent as well as separate. You are dreaming of a revolution in the thinking of the guys that control Turkey. Not likely to ever happen.

Always depends on the balance between the bigger nations, if it suits for the TRNC to be recognized recognized it will be and there will be nothing the GCs can do, we have been given enough opportunity to sort out our differences but obviously like in 1963 to 1974 we have not been able to resolve matters, add to this the last 35 years and numerous failed attempts at agreeing a solution and the big guys will understand that the current division is the best solution for us, recognition may not come in the near future we dont expect it but dont forget e are in this forever and someday when a few generations pass recognition will arrive. If GCs were clever people they would have hammered out a deal by now making necessary compromises with TCs proving that their fears were unfounded including them in important issues and proving that everyone would benefit from unification the remaining compromises which now may seem unacceptable to GCs would over time disappear. But GCs are not that clever they continue t stubborn policies of the past which reconfirm that we cannot live together as they intend to take control of the whole island and turn us into a minority exposed to the surgeons knife.