Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

TC negotiator Nami is interviewed in today's Politis paper.

The interview is a fine example of the chasm between cleverness and intelligence. There is no doubt that Mr Nami is very clever.

He stresses that much progress has been achieved in the sphere of governance, EU relations, the economy.

On properties mr Nami says that the ideal would be a compensation system rather than restitution. The point he say blandly is to preserve the bizonality which must guarantee the TC majority in the north.

On the settlers he refuses to provide numbers but says the number of settlers who should be given citizenship will be surprisinlgy low, but as of now unknown.

On territory he more or less stops at the percentages of the Annan plan.

To recap- we have agreed on the degree of partnership the TCs will have in the south whle the settlers are legalised, properties are not returned to their righful owners, the GCs agree that on the basis of bizonality they will not even try to repurchase property in the north, the deal will be guaranteed by a permanent military contingent from Turkey and this whole deal will form primary EU law!!!!!

And we are still talking!

I believe that we faced this process from the wrong end. Territory should have been the first chapter and made crucial for the continuation of the talks. First we agree on the territory and then we talk about the rest.

It is amazing that the GC side has not understood that the other side is thinking mainly along geopolitical lines while we are playing silly buggers with dialectic and fancy sounding principles. And even if we have not understood the game so far, the plan revealed by their proposals at the talks is an open map of future plans. How stupid do you have to be not to see the obvious!!!

[Lit]

TC negotiator Nami is interviewed in today's Politis paper.

The interview is a fine example of the chasm between cleverness and intelligence. There is no doubt that Mr Nami is very clever.

Why of course. He was hand picked by Talat himself.

He stresses that much progress has been achieved in the sphere of governance, EU relations, the economy.

On properties mr Nami says that the ideal would be a compensation system rather than restitution. The point he say blandly is to preserve the bizonality which must guarantee the TC majority in the north.

Is it really that bad that the north remain TC land? I mean the GCs can live and work throughout the entire EU...do we really need the same freedom in our own country?

On the settlers he refuses to provide numbers but says the number of settlers who should be given citizenship will be surprisinlgy low, but as of now unknown.

Odd. In the Turkish Cypriot daily Kibris newspaper (22.07.09), Nami stated that "They will all become citizens"

On territory he more or less stops at the percentages of the Annan plan.

The problem with the Annan plan was that GCs rejected it. It appears we havent learned our 1974 lesson.

To recap- we have agreed on the degree of partnership the TCs will have in the south whle the settlers are legalised, properties are not returned to their righful owners, the GCs agree that on the basis of bizonality they will not even try to repurchase property in the north, the deal will be guaranteed by a permanent military contingent from Turkey and this whole deal will form primary EU law!!!!!

Wonderful! So settlers in the North and TCs in the south! Where is the problem? Cant we all just get along and sing kumbaya?

[The Cypriot]

...the GCs agree that on the basis of bizonality they will not even try to repurchase property in the north, the deal will be guaranteed by a permanent military contingent from Turkey and this whole deal will form primary EU law!!!!!

This is clearly the best example of the chasm between Nami's 'cleverness' and his intelligence. How can this new racist EU law ever be implemented, let alone policed?

Any other EU citizen, including, presumably, a Greek citizen, can purchase land in the north, but not a 'GC'?

What about GCs, by birth or in origin, who are EU citizens? There must be a couple of hundred thousand of these at least. Will they be prevented? How?

What about those who are half, or a quarter GC? Will they be prevented? How?

What about EU citizens doing a deal with and buying property on behalf of GCs. Will they be prevented? How?

What if a GC (or an EU citizen of GC origin) owns a property company registered in another EU country and chooses to buy and develop land in the north? Will they be prevented? How?

Will Turkey's "military contingent" be tasked with investigating every such transaction to ensure the real purchaser is 'racially' non GC?

This smacks of Nazi Germany, where the SS would check as far back as your grandparents to ascertain whether Jewish blood qualified you for extermination.

[Nikitas]

The problem is more acute when you consider EU corporation law and regulatiosn. It is beyond doubt unlawful to try to examine the individual shareholders in corporations, what in Europe they call Societe Anonyme precisely because they are shareholder owned.

Greece got wanred about trying this out when it wanted to have the names of shareholders of companies who owned communications media (radio, Tv, press). It had to lump it and scrap the law.

So in Cyprus one GC will be unable to buy a few donums in the northm but a Luxembourg registered company will be able to buy thousands of donums and the TC authorities will be able to do FA to stop them.

Like they say, the cure for the irrational is logic.

[Oracle]

Nikitas, I think you were overly generous and kind in your description of this racist, greedy, playground bully.

We'll take it as a compliment then; they fear the business acumen of GCs so much they wish to blackball us from any competition.

How they guard their stolen goods leaves me breathless with disbelief. The audacity and arrogance by which they stake their claims on looted property, territory, lives and still expect that anyone will want to do business with them and their wild attached conditions.

[roseandchan]

this is a similar attitude to the way somethings are here now.
as a expat we have to apply for permissions to purchase, this takes years to come through, you can live in the property whilst it is being sorted out. then they refuse the permissions to purchase due to the military.
you can rent a property close to a military base but you can't own one?????????
so i guess the rules are always there for breaking or working around.
it sounds like this guy has similar ideas but hasn't thought them through in practice.
the e.u will never wear it!

[umit07]

How they guard their stolen goods leaves me breathless with disbelief. The audacity and arrogance by which they stake their claims on looted property, territory, lives and still expect that anyone will want to do business with them and their wild attached conditions.

Well when there are more looters than non-looters, this is the case. When injustice is rampant, injustice becomes law. Very simple really

[Dr J]

To recap- we have agreed on the degree of partnership the TCs will have in the south whle the settlers are legalised, properties are not returned to their righful owners, the GCs agree that on the basis of bizonality they will not even try to repurchase property in the north, the deal will be guaranteed by a permanent military contingent from Turkey and this whole deal will form primary EU law!!!!!

Excuse my ignorance Nikitas but is it certain that the RoC have agreed these terms?

[Kifeas]

TC negotiator Nami is interviewed in today's Politis paper.

The interview is a fine example of the chasm between cleverness and intelligence. There is no doubt that Mr Nami is very clever.

He stresses that much progress has been achieved in the sphere of governance, EU relations, the economy.

On properties mr Nami says that the ideal would be a compensation system rather than restitution. The point he say blandly is to preserve the bizonality which must guarantee the TC majority in the north.

On the settlers he refuses to provide numbers but says the number of settlers who should be given citizenship will be surprisinlgy low, but as of now unknown.

On territory he more or less stops at the percentages of the Annan plan.

To recap- we have agreed on the degree of partnership the TCs will have in the south whle the settlers are legalised, properties are not returned to their righful owners, the GCs agree that on the basis of bizonality they will not even try to repurchase property in the north, the deal will be guaranteed by a permanent military contingent from Turkey and this whole deal will form primary EU law!!!!!

And we are still talking!

I believe that we faced this process from the wrong end. Territory should have been the first chapter and made crucial for the continuation of the talks. First we agree on the territory and then we talk about the rest.

It is amazing that the GC side has not understood that the other side is thinking mainly along geopolitical lines while we are playing silly buggers with dialectic and fancy sounding principles. And even if we have not understood the game so far, the plan revealed by their proposals at the talks is an open map of future plans. How stupid do you have to be not to see the obvious!!!

The bottom line of the problem's solution lies in the fact that the Turkish / TC side have a genuine conviction that they are the winners of 1974, thus they are entitled to gain or retain (much) more than they fairly and / or legitimately should have. As long as they live with such a conviction, there is no hope for an agreed solution, and something must be done or occur which will help remove it from their mind or consciousness. There is no other explanation as to why a mere less than 20% minority expects the rest of the country's people to gift them the almost exclusive ownership of close to 30% of the country -and more than 50% of its coastlines, and then -on the basis of what they want the 80% majority to gift them, they additionally want to become equal (50:50) co-partners in the sharing of the country's overall sovereignty and federal government's power. No other such small minority in the annals of this planet's history have ever dreamed or imagined asking such a large majority, of such or anything even near to what the Turkish / TC side is demanding.

[Kikapu]

TC negotiator Nami is interviewed in today's Politis paper.

The interview is a fine example of the chasm between cleverness and intelligence. There is no doubt that Mr Nami is very clever.

He stresses that much progress has been achieved in the sphere of governance, EU relations, the economy.

On properties mr Nami says that the ideal would be a compensation system rather than restitution. The point he say blandly is to preserve the bizonality which must guarantee the TC majority in the north.

On the settlers he refuses to provide numbers but says the number of settlers who should be given citizenship will be surprisinlgy low, but as of now unknown.

On territory he more or less stops at the percentages of the Annan plan.

The above is full of wish lists with nothing to support it from the EU laws or from the UN resolutions for a settlement, so it's best to ignore it if it's not explained how they intend to make these ideas to be acceptable to those in the south. With no specifics above , he is just a throwing mud on the wall to see if it sticks or just pissing in the wind to see where it will land...

On properties mr Nami says that the ideal would be a compensation system rather than restitution.

Who is going to pay for the GC land...... how long will it take........ how can it get around "freedom of movement"............. and how can the Orams ECJ ruling be ignored.????

The point he say blandly is to preserve the bizonality which must guarantee the TC majority in the north.

This is an easy one to solve. By reducing the north state by 50% of what it is today, say to about 18-20%, of the 180,000 GC displaced from the north in 1974, at least 150,000 will be able to return to their homes and be out of the north state to become part of the south state, which will give the TCs an absolute majority when at max, you will only have about 30,000 GCs with properties that will be in the north state, which many of these GCs, they may sell or rent out their properties and remain living in the south state. This will kill 2 birds with one stone. No need for compensation to be paid to 150,000 GCs and the TCs get to have a absolute majority in the north. A win win solution.!

On the settlers he refuses to provide numbers but says the number of settlers who should be given citizenship will be surprisinlgy low, but as of now unknown.

According to VP, there are 500,000 living in the north and if we subtracted at most 100,000 for the TCs, that would leave 400,000 settlers. A "surprising low number" is a very relative term, meaning 200,000 settlers becoming citizens is a "low" number out of 400,000.

On territory he more or less stops at the percentages of the Annan plan.

So basically he wants his cake and eat it too, when a reduced land size from 30% to 20%, will solve a lot of the problems in not having to deal with compensation, freedom of movement, ECJ rulings, EU principles and so on. If it's going to be one country after all, what difference does it make if its 20% and not 30%. It can also stay at 30%, but then it starts to cause many difficulties with the above conditions and laws I have already mentioned. So the question is, does the north want the 30% to remain as part of Cyprus, or to take and run with it at the first opportunity it arises. To me, it leaves a lot of unanswered questions in my mind as to the motives of making such demands, specially by having the Turkish Army on the ground still. I personally do not think such a proposal will be put to be voted on in a referendum by either side, because if the above is allowed to be in the package, then watch the GCs use their trump cards by putting no garantourship by Turkey or anyone else for that matter, no veto power for the TCs, no 50-50 power share and so on. Basically each side will sink the other sides proposals with their own proposals. If genuine peace is to be found, it will has to be based on the UN resolutions and EU Principles, or else the whole thing is doom to fail. So far I have not seen any attempts to have a genuine peace talks, therefore it will fail on the negotiating table and won't have a chance to go to the voters in a referendum. This way no one will be seen as voting OXI from either side. It will be back to the drawing board again, while Turkey's EU talks come to an end and Talat is out of office.!