Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

You all clearly have not grasped the Cyprus problem nor the solution. You are stuck in the old “all or nothing mentality” which is the same as the last 35 years and led to nothing and will continue to lead to nothing. The percentage of land has not been announced but has been agreed and it is not going to be that different to the Annan plan. The percentage of GCs in the north is not agreed as yet and is going to be decided in the give and take stage. I said all along that everyone to their homes has never been a realistic proposition. All we can hope for is that the majority are happy with their lot and the rest with compensation.
As far as governance is concerned if you want to share it will be as is being discussed. It’s all agreed
Security and Guaranty for the TCs will have to continue for the foreseeable future. Security by EU is non-starter because majority of TCs only trust Turkey and nobody else. Not even UN and I don’t blame them. Besides how can TCs trust the EU when RoC can block their every action?

YFred, how will the constituent state in the north prevent EU citizens, wholly or partly of GC origin, from buying property in the north after a solution, when all other EU citizens will be entitled to do so?

How will this racist law be implemented and policed? Please help me grasp the Cyprus solution to this.

How can this work in practice, in the real world?

Only for a very short while I suspect. Countries have been known to opt out of certain chapters for a while for what ever reason. Uk from Social Chapter for instance.

But this derogation, even if the EU were to accept it (which is impossible, as it is racist) could not be policed. So what is the point of even putting it forward as a proposal?

Where there is a will there is a way, you should know you were the experts of this practice back in the 1950s and 1960s.

[Get Real!]

Did I not say time and time again the chasm is to wide to bridge unless GCs wake up to the fact that the more they resist TC demands more suspisious TC will get asking for more safeguards and guarantees necessary to counter the increasing mistrust these GC rejections generate. If you are not going to exploit these areas or do anything to trigger these safeguards then what the hell are you GCs worried about, sounds to me like you dont even trust yourselves and want to leave us exposed to your extremists tendancies.

At the end of the day… without Turkey you are nobodies and have no choice but to abide by the rules of the RoC, and with Turkey you are Turks… not Cypriots.

[The Cypriot]

You all clearly have not grasped the Cyprus problem nor the solution. You are stuck in the old “all or nothing mentality” which is the same as the last 35 years and led to nothing and will continue to lead to nothing. The percentage of land has not been announced but has been agreed and it is not going to be that different to the Annan plan. The percentage of GCs in the north is not agreed as yet and is going to be decided in the give and take stage. I said all along that everyone to their homes has never been a realistic proposition. All we can hope for is that the majority are happy with their lot and the rest with compensation.
As far as governance is concerned if you want to share it will be as is being discussed. It’s all agreed
Security and Guaranty for the TCs will have to continue for the foreseeable future. Security by EU is non-starter because majority of TCs only trust Turkey and nobody else. Not even UN and I don’t blame them. Besides how can TCs trust the EU when RoC can block their every action?

YFred, how will the constituent state in the north prevent EU citizens, wholly or partly of GC origin, from buying property in the north after a solution, when all other EU citizens will be entitled to do so?

How will this racist law be implemented and policed? Please help me grasp the Cyprus solution to this.

How can this work in practice, in the real world?

Only for a very short while I suspect. Countries have been known to opt out of certain chapters for a while for what ever reason. Uk from Social Chapter for instance.

But this derogation, even if the EU were to accept it (which is impossible, as it is racist) could not be policed. So what is the point of even putting it forward as a proposal?

Where there is a will there is a way, you should know you were the experts of this practice back in the 1950s and 1960s.

There is NO WAY. It is totally impractical and would be so easy to circumvent. In the 1950s and 1960s there was no freedom of movement of EU citizens (no Cypriots) in Cyprus. In the 1950s and 1960s Cyprus was not in the EU. Please,vp. Be practical. This kind of thing is a non-starter and it's so easy for Christofias to explain this to the EU, UN etc. and make Talat look stupid.

[YFred]

You all clearly have not grasped the Cyprus problem nor the solution. You are stuck in the old “all or nothing mentality” which is the same as the last 35 years and led to nothing and will continue to lead to nothing. The percentage of land has not been announced but has been agreed and it is not going to be that different to the Annan plan. The percentage of GCs in the north is not agreed as yet and is going to be decided in the give and take stage. I said all along that everyone to their homes has never been a realistic proposition. All we can hope for is that the majority are happy with their lot and the rest with compensation.
As far as governance is concerned if you want to share it will be as is being discussed. It’s all agreed
Security and Guaranty for the TCs will have to continue for the foreseeable future. Security by EU is non-starter because majority of TCs only trust Turkey and nobody else. Not even UN and I don’t blame them. Besides how can TCs trust the EU when RoC can block their every action?

YFred, how will the constituent state in the north prevent EU citizens, wholly or partly of GC origin, from buying property in the north after a solution, when all other EU citizens will be entitled to do so?

How will this racist law be implemented and policed? Please help me grasp the Cyprus solution to this.

How can this work in practice, in the real world?

Only for a very short while I suspect. Countries have been known to opt out of certain chapters for a while for what ever reason. Uk from Social Chapter for instance.

But this derogation, even if the EU were to accept it (which is impossible, as it is racist) could not be policed. So what is the point of even putting it forward as a proposal?

It will make the TCs feel more secure.
Let me put it this way. During WW2, when the Germans were bombing London, The British had no chance of hitting the Bombers but they continued to fire in the air. It made the Public feel better. It is a matter of perception. The fact that it may be impossible to implement is immaterial.

If as you say, it is impossible to police then what is the harm in putting it in and helping the TCs to move one step closer to peace.

[The Cypriot]

But this derogation, even if the EU were to accept it (which is impossible, as it is racist) could not be policed. So what is the point of even putting it forward as a proposal?

It will make the TCs feel more secure.
Let me put it this way. During WW2, when the Germans were bombing London, The British had no chance of hitting the Bombers but they continued to fire in the air. It made the Public feel better. It is a matter of perception. The fact that it may be impossible to implement is immaterial.

If as you say, it is impossible to police then what is the harm in putting it in and helping the TCs to move one step closer to peace.

The harm is it is racist and it tries to create barriers. It goes against the very principles the EU was founded on and the reason why war has been avoided between its member countries since the end of WW2. Trying to implement this would not bring us closer to peace. It would cause outrage and resentment.

Why treat TCs like children? Reassure them with falsehoods? Far better to explain the reality of the situation and seek legitimate, practical, acceptable and enforeceable ways to reassure them. Your politicians are letting you down badly. And we know why. Because they do the bidding of Turkey, not the people.

[Nikitas]

All or nothing is clearly not the attitude of the GCs. They have agreed to a Federal solution and a bizonal division which in realistic terms is partition under a different name.

What the TCs cannot see is that agreeing to foreign guarantees makes Cyprus a s second rate state, as it was under the 1960 agreement, and it gives GREECE a major say in what goes on in Cyprus. If you cannot understand the problem then the All or nothing charge is more in your court than the GCs.

What do you people think that the officers of the two contingents will be doing all day while they are stationed in Cyprus? Obviously the officers will want to be doing something to justify their jobs, and to enhance their promotion prospects. And this will be drawing up contingency plans based on scenarios- ie how to neutralise each other in the event of a clash. This is what was happening in the past, and it will happen again if we allow the same deal to play over again.

[Nikitas]

YFred above says that the territorial issue hase been settled. Really? Since when?

[YFred]

YFred above says that the territorial issue hase been settled. Really? Since when?

It wasn't anounced, but after the negotiation on Property. Give and take negotiations will determine how many GC will live in the north.

[YFred]

But this derogation, even if the EU were to accept it (which is impossible, as it is racist) could not be policed. So what is the point of even putting it forward as a proposal?

It will make the TCs feel more secure.
Let me put it this way. During WW2, when the Germans were bombing London, The British had no chance of hitting the Bombers but they continued to fire in the air. It made the Public feel better. It is a matter of perception. The fact that it may be impossible to implement is immaterial.

If as you say, it is impossible to police then what is the harm in putting it in and helping the TCs to move one step closer to peace.

The harm is it is racist and it tries to create barriers. It goes against the very principles the EU was founded on and the reason why war has been avoided between its member countries since the end of WW2. Trying to implement this would not bring us closer to peace. It would cause outrage and resentment.

Why treat TCs like children? Reassure them with falsehoods? Far better to explain the reality of the situation and seek legitimate, practical, acceptable and enforeceable ways to reassure them. Your politicians are letting you down badly. And we know why. Because they do the bidding of Turkey, not the people.

When the east Europeans joined EU they did exactly the same thing and removed the barriers quite quickly afterwards. If they hadn't perhaps the west European population would not have accepted the easterners so readily.

[Kikapu]

YFred above says that the territorial issue hase been settled. Really? Since when?

I suspect YFreak knows while he was in an Asylum in 2004 when the TCs and settlers said YES to the failed Annan Plan, only by a lousy 65% I may add, for what was a once in a lifetime plan such as the AP was for the TCs and the settlers. The remaining 35% TCs and settlers held out for more, because they felt that the AP wasn't good enough to be a once in a lifetime plan. Since the TCs and settlers said YES to the failed Annan Plan, then as far as YFreak is concerned, everything that was in the AP can only be a starting point from then on in any and all future negotiations, so that's how YFreak knows that the territorial lines have already has been agreed on.!