Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

If you truly believe the destruction of heritage is not mutual on both sides, you must be totally out of your mind Oracle.

As usual you are conveniently ignoring evidence put before you and selectively accepting evidence that supports your racist views.

Any report that claims "it is about Cyprus" while ignoring half of the island, is indeed bias and incomplete.

[Oracle]

If you truly believe the destruction of heritage is not mutual on both sides, you must be totally out of your mind Oracle.

It is Turkey's aim, as the enemy occupant, to remove the ongoing Cypriot cultural heritage of thousands of years.

It has been cleansing the north of Cyprus from Churches, icons, language, people etc .... for 35 years!

[samarkeolog]

I would also say that the most important thing is not the exact amounts of destruction, but the facts of the destruction, and the destroyers. I think the most important thing is to know that small groups of extremists and paramilitaries destroyed Cypriot community and society, and how they destroyed them, so that we can try to undo some of their damage, and try to save others from a similar fate.

The amount of destruction may be an indicator of the intent or ultimate aim of the destruction, which I think is the real issue.

Obviously, I'm not dismissing the importance [s]of[/s] or the informativeness of the amount of destruction.

The intent of both sides' nationalists' destruction was clearly the destruction of the other community, destruction of their identity and the proof of their historic presence on the island.

And if you want to understand the intent of the destruction of churches, you have to begin with the destruction of mosques, because it was the Greek Cypriots' destruction of mosques that caused the Turkish Cypriots'/Turks' destruction of churches.

When the Hellenist extremists' violence was used to destroy the Islamic/Turkish Cypriot presence on the island, the Turkist extremists' violence used their violence to destroy the Christian/Greek Cypriot presence in northern Cyprus.

Systematic or state sponsored destruction is obviously of major concern being less amenable to preventative measures.

We know from habit and history that the victors or conquerors aim to erase the influences of the predecessors. There is much evidence to suggest the Turks are systematically, via state endorsement, attempting to remove Greek history, symbols (icons), language (village names), buildings (churches) and most of all ... people!

The Hellenist extremists did the same thing, they established every practice that the Turkist extremists now use: destruction of mosques; changes in street names (to those of EOKA heroes, etc.) - and even changes in suburb/village names (like the change in the spelling of Aglantzia(?)); and people too, through the enclaving of the Turkish Cypriots.

In this context, the RoC has absolutely no desire to eradicate the TCs' history, (is there even one mosque converted to a church?). There is unlikely to be any (RoC) state endorsed destruction, as the aim is to restore a reunified island with all the people accessing their homes.

Sam, you are a good mental distraction ... but I bid you goodnight!

It depends upon your definition of a church and a mosque: there are no buildings originally built as mosques, which have been converted into churches. But there are buildings that were originally built as churches, which had been mosques for half a millennium, which have been converted into churches, or at least which have had their wall-paintings exposed, so that Orthodox Muslims could no longer worship in those buildings, so that they will be converted into churches.

But I know you probably won't accept that a building that was a mosque for [s]500[/s] 400 [sorry, still waking up] years was a mosque; still, there was damage to and destruction of mosques during the EOKA campaign and during the intercommunal conflict. (The Hellenic Open University's Dr. Charalampos Chotzakoglou briefly acknowledged 'damages' (in Religious Monuments in Turkish-Occupied Cyprus: Evidence and Acts of Continuous Destruction (2008: 57)), but only so he could praise the restoration work. By ignoring the complete destruction documented by the Council of Europe and UNESCO, he effectively denied it.) Homes were targeted too.

The damage done during the EOKA campaign was done by forces under the control of the people who would become the Republic of Cyprus, and the damage done during the intercommunal conflict was done sometimes by forces under the state's control, sometimes by forces outside the state's control.

Damage done since 1974 has been sometimes outside of the state's control, but sometimes under its control. All of those road improvement schemes [that] somehow required/caused the destruction of Turkish Cypriot homes were state/state-approved projects, weren't they?

[shahmaran]

samarkeolog, I have a slight suspicion that you might be wasting your time giving perfectly logical arguments to Oracle on the matter.

She wont ever take anything in consideration if it slightly means leaving her hard-right-racist view of the whole world, she won't even take a short walk that way, EVER!

[Lit]

I would also say that the most important thing is not the exact amounts of destruction, but the facts of the destruction, and the destroyers. I think the most important thing is to know that small groups of extremists and paramilitaries destroyed Cypriot community and society, and how they destroyed them, so that we can try to undo some of their damage, and try to save others from a similar fate.

The amount of destruction may be an indicator of the intent or ultimate aim of the destruction, which I think is the real issue.

Obviously, I'm not dismissing the importance [s]of[/s] or the informativeness of the amount of destruction.

The intent of both sides' nationalists' destruction was clearly the destruction of the other community, destruction of their identity and the proof of their historic presence on the island.

And if you want to understand the intent of the destruction of churches, you have to begin with the destruction of mosques, because it was the Greek Cypriots' destruction of mosques that caused the Turkish Cypriots'/Turks' destruction of churches.

When the Hellenist extremists' violence was used to destroy the Islamic/Turkish Cypriot presence on the island, the Turkist extremists' violence used their violence to destroy the Christian/Greek Cypriot presence in northern Cyprus.

Systematic or state sponsored destruction is obviously of major concern being less amenable to preventative measures.

We know from habit and history that the victors or conquerors aim to erase the influences of the predecessors. There is much evidence to suggest the Turks are systematically, via state endorsement, attempting to remove Greek history, symbols (icons), language (village names), buildings (churches) and most of all ... people!

The Hellenist extremists did the same thing, they established every practice that the Turkist extremists now use: destruction of mosques; changes in street names (to those of EOKA heroes, etc.) - and even changes in suburb/village names (like the change in the spelling of Aglantzia(?)); and people too, through the enclaving of the Turkish Cypriots.

In this context, the RoC has absolutely no desire to eradicate the TCs' history, (is there even one mosque converted to a church?). There is unlikely to be any (RoC) state endorsed destruction, as the aim is to restore a reunified island with all the people accessing their homes.

Sam, you are a good mental distraction ... but I bid you goodnight!

It depends upon your definition of a church and a mosque: there are no buildings originally built as mosques, which have been converted into churches. But there are buildings that were originally built as churches, which had been mosques for half a millennium, which have been converted into churches, or at least which have had their wall-paintings exposed, so that Orthodox Muslims could no longer worship in those buildings, so that they will be converted into churches.

What are you rambling on about you blithering idiot? Let me get this right, half a millenia ago...the Ottomans conquered Cyprus and it was at this time the natives converted original Mosques into churches. Really, who cares what your trying to say. tHE UNQUESTIONABLE proof are from those two million tourists who visit Cyprus each year. When these tourists visit the RoC...they see mosques every where and some that are actually being restored by the government of the RoC. But when they visit the occupied north, they see destruction of everything none Turkic...why is that? Listen, you dont have to take my word or anyone else in this forum. The proof is from those who actually visit Cyprus.

The following article appeared in the Christian Post on 28 April written by Michelle A Vu.

"The last church standing in north Cyprus

How the Christian history was erased

One lone church struggles to survive in a land where hundreds have been damaged or destroyed. But this is no ordinary land; it is the very ground where Apostle Paul took his first missionary journey to proclaim salvation through Jesus Christ to the Roman Empire.

Now 2,000 years later, the small Mediterranean island of Cyprus is divided into two with the northern third occupied by Turkey. In the span of three decades under Turkish control, more than 530 churches and monasteries have been pillaged, vandalized, or destroyed in the northern area, according to The Republic of Cyprus.

"I cannot say that it (destruction of churches) is encouraged openly by the Turkish government," said Cyprus's Ambassador to the United States, Andreas Kakouris, to The Christian Post. "All I can say is that it is taking place in the area that is under direct control of the Turkish military and I leave you to make your own conclusions from that."

Since its 1974 invasion, Turkey has controlled northern Cyprus which it calls the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus." No international nation has ever recognized this entity except for Turkey. The United States has only recognized the Republic of Cyprus.

Starting in 2003, Greek-Cypriots again were allowed to cross the border between the Republic of Cyprus and the area under Turkish control. It was around this time that scholars and photographers were able to visit northern Cyprus to document the destruction of historic churches and artifacts.

St. Mamas Church in the northwest town of Morphou is the only notable church that is known to be semi-active in Turkey-controlled Cyprus, according to the New York-based Hellenic Times and the Embassy of The Republic of Cyprus in the United States. Turkish officials who rule the area reportedly give permission twice a year for remaining residents - who were there before Turkish occupation - to worship in the church.

But other churches did not fare so well.

About 133 churches, chapels and monasteries have been converted to military storage facilities, stables and night-clubs. Seventy-eight churches have been converted to mosques, and dozens more are used as military facilities, medical storage facilities, or stockyards or hay barns, according to statistics from The Republic of Cyprus.

Agia Anastasia church in Lapithos was converted into a hotel and casino, while Sourp Magar Armenian monastery - founded in the medieval period - was converted into a cafeteria.

A Neolithic settlement at the Cape of Apostolos Andreas-Kastros in the occupied area of Rizokapraso - a site declared an ancient monument by the Republic of Cyprus - was bulldozed by the Turkish Army in order to plant two of its flagpoles on top of the historic hill.

"This is not a Muslim-Christian issue," contends Ambassador Kakouris, who is a Greek Orthodox Christian.

Turkey, a constitutionally secular country, is made up of more than a 99 percent Muslim population, according to the CIA World Factbook. "I don't think the Cyprus problem has ever been a religious issue between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots," said Kakouris.

But he added that if the Turkish government hadn't given the "green light" on the destruction of churches and artifacts, they have not given the "red light" either.

"So it is ... either directly taking place or with their blind eye or whatever you want to call it. But they are responsible for what is taking place there," says Kakouris.

Furthermore, over 15,000 portable religious icons were stolen and auctioned off around the world.

Relics - which include fine icons, mosaics and frescoes from ancient Byzantine era - have turned up at auction houses around the world, including at the prestigious Sotheby's in New York.

In January 2007, six icons were returned to the Church of Cyprus after being smuggled out of the country. They were to be put up for auction at Sotheby's.

Also, back in 1988, four pieces of an invaluable work of art, dating between 525 and 530 A.D., were recovered when a Turkish art dealer offered to sell it to an American antique dealer for $1 million. The American dealer contacted the Paul Getty Museum in Malibu to resell the mosaics for $20 million. The museum then informed the Cypriot Church about the art work.

In the end, the United States courts ruled that the Cypriot Church was the legitimate owner of the pieces, and they are now shown in the Byzantine Museum of Nicosia.

It is estimated that more than 60,000 ancient artifacts have been illegally transferred to other countries, according to the Republic of Cyprus. Sadly, most of these artifacts were not recovered.

Cyprus has some of the finest collections of Byzantine art in the world, offering scholars and others the priceless study on the development of Byzantine wall-painting art from the 8th-9th century until the 18th century A.D.

The United States has recognized Cyprus' endangered cultural heritage, and in 1999 and 2003 the U.S. Treasury Department issued emergency import restrictions on Byzantine Ecclesiastical and Ritual Ethnological Materials from Cyprus.

Then in 2002, the United States and Cyprus signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) concerning the import restrictions on pre-classical and classical archeological objects from Cyprus. The MOU was amended and renewed in 2006 and 2007 to include additional artifacts.

Kakouris commented that the Cyprus issue has been ignored for decades by the United States.

"There is only so much oxygen that exists from a journalistic point of view," he said. "When one picks up the paper and looks at international issues what does one see? Either a bombing that took place in the Middle East or a bombing in Iraq or loss of life in Afghanistan - issues such as that.

He continued, "Although there are issues that appear to be more important than the Cyprus issue - because we don't have that immediacy of seeing deaths or events on a daily basis in Cyprus, and thankfully - that does not make the continuing occupation by Turkey of the northern part of Cyprus any more acceptable."

There were 20,000 Greek Cypriots in the Turkish-controlled area after 1974, but today there are about 450 Greek Cypriots remaining.

Over 80 percent of the Republic of Cyprus population is Christian. While the island population is only 800,000, it is a major tourist attraction, drawing over 2 million tourists each year."

[Lit]

News, analysis from an Italian website. Note, how these people who report the story actually have visited Cyprus:

Cyprus: Portrait of a Christianity Obliterated

In the northern part of the island, occupied by Turkey, the churches have become stables or mosques. The diary of a trip beyond the wall

by Sandro Magister

read it here:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/ar ... 6544?eng=y

[Lit]

Are there really two sides to every issue? On every issue? Well, the Turks would have us believe that wouldnt they? Destruction of Greek Cypriot culture...hold on, not so fast my EOKA gayreek friend, there two sides two this, always have and always will be. Yes, Mehmeti, your always right Mr. Mehmeti, as you say Mr. Mehmeti....

[Lit]

I would also say that the most important thing is not the exact amounts of destruction, but the facts of the destruction, and the destroyers. I think the most important thing is to know that small groups of extremists and paramilitaries destroyed Cypriot community and society, and how they destroyed them, so that we can try to undo some of their damage, and try to save others from a similar fate.

The amount of destruction may be an indicator of the intent or ultimate aim of the destruction, which I think is the real issue.

Obviously, I'm not dismissing the importance [s]of[/s] or the informativeness of the amount of destruction.

The intent of both sides' nationalists' destruction was clearly the destruction of the other community, destruction of their identity and the proof of their historic presence on the island.

And if you want to understand the intent of the destruction of churches, you have to begin with the destruction of mosques, because it was the Greek Cypriots' destruction of mosques that caused the Turkish Cypriots'/Turks' destruction of churches.

When the Hellenist extremists' violence was used to destroy the Islamic/Turkish Cypriot presence on the island, the Turkist extremists' violence used their violence to destroy the Christian/Greek Cypriot presence in northern Cyprus.

Systematic or state sponsored destruction is obviously of major concern being less amenable to preventative measures.

We know from habit and history that the victors or conquerors aim to erase the influences of the predecessors. There is much evidence to suggest the Turks are systematically, via state endorsement, attempting to remove Greek history, symbols (icons), language (village names), buildings (churches) and most of all ... people!

The Hellenist extremists did the same thing, they established every practice that the Turkist extremists now use: destruction of mosques; changes in street names (to those of EOKA heroes, etc.) - and even changes in suburb/village names (like the change in the spelling of Aglantzia(?)); and people too, through the enclaving of the Turkish Cypriots.

In this context, the RoC has absolutely no desire to eradicate the TCs' history, (is there even one mosque converted to a church?). There is unlikely to be any (RoC) state endorsed destruction, as the aim is to restore a reunified island with all the people accessing their homes.

Sam, you are a good mental distraction ... but I bid you goodnight!

It depends upon your definition of a church and a mosque: there are no buildings originally built as mosques, which have been converted into churches. But there are buildings that were originally built as churches, which had been mosques for half a millennium, which have been converted into churches, or at least which have had their wall-paintings exposed, so that Orthodox Muslims could no longer worship in those buildings, so that they will be converted into churches.

What are you rambling on about you blithering idiot? Let me get this right, half a millenia ago...the Ottomans conquered Cyprus and it was at this time the natives converted original Mosques into churches. Really, who cares what your trying to say. tHE UNQUESTIONABLE proof are from those two million tourists who visit Cyprus each year. When these tourists visit the RoC...they see mosques every where and some that are actually being restored by the government of the RoC. But when they visit the occupied north, they see destruction of everything none Turkic...why is that? Listen, you dont have to take my word or anyone else in this forum. The proof is from those who actually visit Cyprus.

The following article appeared in the Christian Post on 28 April written by Michelle A Vu.

"The last church standing in north Cyprus

How the Christian history was erased

Link here:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... index.html

[Lit]

Turkey’s policy on Cyprus. Churches converted into mosques. Why not just bid new mosques? really, whats going on? Weve seen that churches and monasteries converted into stables and hostels. Again, why not just build new stables or new hostels? Cemeteries destroyed and desecrated. Even the dead cant rest in peace. Icons and artifacts looted and smuggled abroad. Why are you whining gayreek is the response im hearing from some TCs in this forum. Names of towns and villages have been changed and were converted into Turkish ones. Is it really hard to say Morphou? After peace operation 1974, its been given the name Güzelyurt.

Say it with me now....G ü z e l y u r t.

Where in history is Morphou called G ü z e l y u r t?

Are there really two sides to the destruction of anything GC in the North?

The only thing i see from the TC contributors here (with the exception of one) is how happy they are to be a Turk and living in the TRNC.

[Lit]

Even these homes from Famagusta have been looted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcfBJ7DimB8

We are talking about 45, 000 people forced to leave thanks to the peace operation. GCs may have it back if they accept something similar to say an Annan Plan. Are there really two sides to using Famagusta as a bargaining chip? I ask you my fellow Cypriots....TCs and GCs answer me. Are there two sides to this or is it a war crime?