Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

What are you talking about Oracle, we have stolen Mosques too now?

Because your entire argument is based on 500 year old tales, it is bound to fail.

Tell me why our heritage is insignificant and yours is.

We have not "borrowed" anything, we simply built Mosques on OUR country and you destroyed them while blaming us for not respecting your heritage.

It is a 2 way road Oracle, you cant ignore one of the lanes

[shahmaran]

You want bias documents, well here you go Lit, it is worth hearing both sides as always;

You got some nuts on you. I reproduced an article from http://www.csce.gov/ which is an independent agency called "The Commission of security and cooperation in Europe" also known as the "U.S. Helsinki Commission". Why would it be biased towards the RoC? And we already know that whats in the transcript is 100 percent true as anyone who visits Cyprus can see it for themselves.

Any research that only talks about 1 side of the island is indeed bias.

Pretty straight forward don't you think?

The document I have quoted is from www.un.org

[shahmaran]

Friday, February 20, 2009

Dalibard, Jansen: suppressed UNESCO cultural heritage report
I still haven't seen the complete but 'suppressed' version that journalist Michael Jansen (2005: 27) apparently has, but this is the public version of UNESCO Councillor for Cultural Heritage Jacque Dalibard's (1976) report, Cyprus: Status of the Conservation of Cultural Property. (UNESCO reversed the title and subtitle in their library catalogue record.)

The original report must be remarkable; and its suppression makes it an even more fascinating case of cultural heritage politics and ethics. Still, the problem cannot be quite as simple as Jansen suggested. Southern Cyprus resident Jansen (2005: 27) claimed that the one-hundred-page report was 'bowdlerized', censored and reduced to nine pages 'because of Turkish and Turkish Cypriot objections'. [Even simple details are incorrect: for example, she said that the report was five pages long (2005: 28), but the one part on northern Cyprus is over six pages long.]

That insinuated more than 90% of the damage and destruction in Cyprus was Turkish and Turkish Cypriot damage to and destruction of Greek Cypriot cultural property. It implied the Greek Cypriot administration, military and paramilitaries and local nationalist extremists had behaved well and were innocent of [almost] any cultural crime.

In her seventy-three pages of text and sixteen pages of images, Jansen only once addressed damage to and destruction of mosques in Cyprus, citing one disproven Turkish Cypriot propaganda claim (2005: 28). Her only other mention of Cypriot mosques was the conversion of a church into a mosque in the occupied areas (2005: fig. 11).

Even Dalibard's censored nine-page report acknowledged that Hala Sultan Tekke had been damaged (1972: 2) and that Ömeriye Mosque was in 'very bad condition'. He found Bayraktar Mosque 'totally vandalized, the minaret pulled down, the windows blocked, the roof in a state of collapse' (1976: 3).

And Dalibard had later explained that he had 'to go from one side to the other and try to convince [all] the armies... not to blow up the heritage buildings.... and to stop the looting and all these things' (Dalibard and Donaldson, 1999; notably, years before Jansen published her revised, extended study, which still did not even acknowledge the destruction documented by Dalibard three decades earlier).

Evidently, Dalibard's research was heavily and unacceptably censored; but it must have been censored because of Greek and Greek Cypriot objections as well as Turkish and Turkish Cypriot ones.

[Post edited on the 24th of February 2009.]

Dalibard, J. 1976: Status of the Conservation of Cultural Property: Cyprus. Paris: UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation). Available at: http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0002/0 ... 1772eb.pdf.
Dalibard, J and Donaldson, J. 2006 [1999]: "Interview". McGill University School of Architecture, 16th September. Available at: http://www.mcgill.ca/architecture/alumi ... /dalibard/
Jansen, M. 2005: War and cultural heritage: Cyprus after the 1974 Turkish invasion. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press.

[Lit]

Any research that only talks about 1 side of the island is indeed bias.

Turkey's invasion and ethnic cleansing in Cyprus was a war crime.

http://mondediplo.com/maps/cyprusmdv49

Pretty straight forward don't you think?

A war crime.

The document I have quoted is from www.un.org

The document you have quoted was from a letter dated 6 September 2001 from the charge d'affaires a.i. of the permanent Mission of Turkey to the United Nations addressed to the Secretary-General. LOL See here:

http://tinyurl.com/ml4gfb

Like i said--we already know that whats in the U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION transcript is 100 percent true as anyone who visits Cyprus can see it for themselves.

Here is that link to the transcript of the "CYPRUS’ RELIGIOUS CULTURAL HERITAGE IN PERIL' briefing:

http://www.csce.gov/index.cfm?FuseActio ... N=90239950


Take care.

[shahmaran]

I live in Cyprus Lit and you know the invasion was not illegal.

The link you provided claims that it was the Turkish Occupation that forced the mosaic to polarize, yet the people were divided many years before that due to extremists on both sides.

You were not about to end our 11 year long suffrage anytime soon and you were not able to overcome the coup either.

Oh and Oracle, please note how the experts refer to them as "heritage"

[Oracle]

What are you talking about Oracle, we have stolen Mosques too now?

Because your entire argument is based on 500 year old tales, it is bound to fail.

Tell me why our heritage is insignificant and yours is.

We have not "borrowed" anything, we simply built Mosques on OUR country and you destroyed them while blaming us for not respecting your heritage.

It is a 2 way road Oracle, you cant ignore one of the lanes

What is it Piratis called you the other day? ... Oh yes! Straw Man!

Your summations, although frequent, are as reliable as your "history"; full of distortions and lies. You seem to take pleasure in repeating how insignificant your heritage is because, poor pitiless soul, you do not have a clue what is yours and what is stolen!

Of course all the things you steal from us and the Arabs that went before you, are now your "heritage"!

[Nikitas]

"You were not about to end our 11 year long suffrage anytime soon and you were not able to overcome the coup either."

Agreement was very close in 1973. This has been documented by evidence offered by both mainland Greek and Turkish advisers to Clerides and Denktash, and there is that famous party to celebrate the succesful conclusion of the agreement in 1973. A party which Greek constitutional law expert Michalis Dekleris called an "orgy of wine consumption" by Clerides and Denktash.

Overcoming the coup, well we do not know really, we never got a chance to try. The coup got into phase one, obtaining control over central installations, we do not know how resistance would have developed in the following weeks, Turkey invaded five days after its start.

But, if 200 EOKA guerrillas managed to pin down 44000 British soldiers, it is a sure bet that 600 000 Cypriots would have given the junta a run for its money.

[YFred]

"You were not about to end our 11 year long suffrage anytime soon and you were not able to overcome the coup either."

Agreement was very close in 1973. This has been documented by evidence offered by both mainland Greek and Turkish advisers to Clerides and Denktash, and there is that famous party to celebrate the succesful conclusion of the agreement in 1973. A party which Greek constitutional law expert Michalis Dekleris called an "orgy of wine consumption" by Clerides and Denktash.

Overcoming the coup, well we do not know really, we never got a chance to try. The coup got into phase one, obtaining control over central installations, we do not know how resistance would have developed in the following weeks, Turkey invaded five days after its start.

But, if 200 EOKA guerrillas managed to pin down 44000 British soldiers, it is a sure bet that 600 000 Cypriots would have given the junta a run for its money.

Except that Eoka which had the real power in Cyprus was with Junta and managed to keep the lid on 600000 Cypriots too.

[boomerang]

"You were not about to end our 11 year long suffrage anytime soon and you were not able to overcome the coup either."

Agreement was very close in 1973. This has been documented by evidence offered by both mainland Greek and Turkish advisers to Clerides and Denktash, and there is that famous party to celebrate the succesful conclusion of the agreement in 1973. A party which Greek constitutional law expert Michalis Dekleris called an "orgy of wine consumption" by Clerides and Denktash.

Overcoming the coup, well we do not know really, we never got a chance to try. The coup got into phase one, obtaining control over central installations, we do not know how resistance would have developed in the following weeks, Turkey invaded five days after its start.

But, if 200 EOKA guerrillas managed to pin down 44000 British soldiers, it is a sure bet that 600 000 Cypriots would have given the junta a run for its money.

Except that Eoka which had the real power in Cyprus was with Junta and managed to keep the lid on 600000 Cypriots too.

Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe knucklehead?...

[YFred]

"You were not about to end our 11 year long suffrage anytime soon and you were not able to overcome the coup either."

Agreement was very close in 1973. This has been documented by evidence offered by both mainland Greek and Turkish advisers to Clerides and Denktash, and there is that famous party to celebrate the succesful conclusion of the agreement in 1973. A party which Greek constitutional law expert Michalis Dekleris called an "orgy of wine consumption" by Clerides and Denktash.

Overcoming the coup, well we do not know really, we never got a chance to try. The coup got into phase one, obtaining control over central installations, we do not know how resistance would have developed in the following weeks, Turkey invaded five days after its start.

But, if 200 EOKA guerrillas managed to pin down 44000 British soldiers, it is a sure bet that 600 000 Cypriots would have given the junta a run for its money.

Except that Eoka which had the real power in Cyprus was with Junta and managed to keep the lid on 600000 Cypriots too.

Did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe knucklehead?...

Bambulla fetch girl. No Bambulla don't shove that stick up your arse. Good girl.