Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

... Let me just remind you that this march is and should be one of Cypriots demonstrating against the continued presence of Turkish occupying troops in the north part of our country.
Greece and the Greek flag are dividing forces not uniting .

You complete madman! ... You are not the organiser of this march so stop driving people away with your stupid remarks and rules.

If my Greek cousins wanted to come and support their ally Cyprus, on this march, and they waved Greek flags ... are you going to f-ing turn them away?

If my French neighbours decide to come and show support for the Cypriot cause, and they waved the French flag, are you going to f-ing turn them away?

Stay in your shop tinker-man and sell your pots and pans to your Turkish friends, and pray with your Muslim neighbours to show your solidarity with them -- and stop driving away the allies of Cyprus with your childish 'Greeks are not in my gang' nonsense.

Greetings, Oracle. I too have an affinity for the Hellenic heritage aspect of the Cypriot culture, but flourishing the national flag of Greece at this event is an afront to the reunification effort, as is waving the national flag of Turkey. It is simply counterintuitive to brandish the national flags of those countries that represent the ethnic tensions upon which the island was divided.

Fine felicitations Filitsa ...

I base my stance on the ideology behind this 'show of support'. If one were to allow the French to attend and wave their flags in support of the ousting of the belligerent Turkish troops, why should one deny the Greeks the chance to equally show support with their flag?

After all, I believe Miltiades will climax on the spot should he spy a Turkish flag ...

[Filitsa]

Since there are so many issues relevant to the Turkish occupation of Cyprus and since such issues do at times counter what civilised societies require, I can see no reason why Greece (or any other nation in the European Union) should not exhibit their solidarity by demonstrating alongside their European brothers.

Furthermore, it might be a fine idea if ALL member states unfurled their flags in support of Cyprus' demands that the Turkish military forces should leave the island.

It's more of a "fine ideal," Floda. The fact remains that the Greek national flag is a symbol of "enosis" to most ethnic Turks of Cyprus. Likewise, the Turkish national flag symbolizes "taksim" to most ethnic Greeks of Cyprus. All other national flags are relatively benign compared to these.

[Filitsa]

... Let me just remind you that this march is and should be one of Cypriots demonstrating against the continued presence of Turkish occupying troops in the north part of our country.
Greece and the Greek flag are dividing forces not uniting .

You complete madman! ... You are not the organiser of this march so stop driving people away with your stupid remarks and rules.

If my Greek cousins wanted to come and support their ally Cyprus, on this march, and they waved Greek flags ... are you going to f-ing turn them away?

If my French neighbours decide to come and show support for the Cypriot cause, and they waved the French flag, are you going to f-ing turn them away?

Stay in your shop tinker-man and sell your pots and pans to your Turkish friends, and pray with your Muslim neighbours to show your solidarity with them -- and stop driving away the allies of Cyprus with your childish 'Greeks are not in my gang' nonsense.

Greetings, Oracle. I too have an affinity for the Hellenic heritage aspect of the Cypriot culture, but flourishing the national flag of Greece at this event is an afront to the reunification effort, as is waving the national flag of Turkey. It is simply counterintuitive to brandish the national flags of those countries that represent the ethnic tensions upon which the island was divided.

Fine felicitations Filitsa ...

I base my stance on the ideology behind this 'show of support'. If one were to allow the French to attend and wave their flags in support of the ousting of the belligerent Turkish troops, why should one deny the Greeks the chance to equally show support with their flag?

Oracle, if you will, read my response to Floda. Most ethnic Greeks and most ethnic Turks can't get beyond the symbolism of each other's flags. Again, waving these flags is counterintuitive.

[Oracle]

... Let me just remind you that this march is and should be one of Cypriots demonstrating against the continued presence of Turkish occupying troops in the north part of our country.
Greece and the Greek flag are dividing forces not uniting .

You complete madman! ... You are not the organiser of this march so stop driving people away with your stupid remarks and rules.

If my Greek cousins wanted to come and support their ally Cyprus, on this march, and they waved Greek flags ... are you going to f-ing turn them away?

If my French neighbours decide to come and show support for the Cypriot cause, and they waved the French flag, are you going to f-ing turn them away?

Stay in your shop tinker-man and sell your pots and pans to your Turkish friends, and pray with your Muslim neighbours to show your solidarity with them -- and stop driving away the allies of Cyprus with your childish 'Greeks are not in my gang' nonsense.

Greetings, Oracle. I too have an affinity for the Hellenic heritage aspect of the Cypriot culture, but flourishing the national flag of Greece at this event is an afront to the reunification effort, as is waving the national flag of Turkey. It is simply counterintuitive to brandish the national flags of those countries that represent the ethnic tensions upon which the island was divided.

Fine felicitations Filitsa ...

I base my stance on the ideology behind this 'show of support'. If one were to allow the French to attend and wave their flags in support of the ousting of the belligerent Turkish troops, why should one deny the Greeks the chance to equally show support with their flag?

Oracle, if you will, read my response to Floda. Most ethnic Greeks and most ethnic Turks can't get beyond the symbolism of each other's flags. Again, waving these flags is counterintuitive.

So, based on intuition, what do you think would be the most likely outcome from following this Turk-pleasing gesture of not flying any Greek flags, in support of Cyprus' cause:

The Turks having achieved this 'no Greek flag-flying' objective say, "Great, ...

1) ... no more danger of Greek support; let's leave Cyprus alone!

2) ... that worked well; let's stop them speaking Greek now!

[The Cypriot]

So, based on intuition, what do you think would be the most likely outcome from following this Turk-pleasing gesture of not flying any Greek flags, in support of Cyprus' cause:

The Turks having achieved this 'no Greek flag-flying' objective say, "Great, ...

1) ... no danger from Greek support, let's leave Cyprus alone!

2) ... that worked well, let's stop them speaking Greek now!

You've got it all wrong - flying the Greek flag pleases Turkey immensely.

They are the ones who refer to the republic as 'Greek Cyprus', the president, as the 'Greek leader' and have tried to convince the world that Cyprus should be divided along ethnic lines and that the problem was solved in 1974. Flying the Greek flag helps with Turkey's propaganda.

It amazes me that you can't see what is becoming crystal clear to most Cypriots with an ounce of intelligence.

[Floda]

Since there are so many issues relevant to the Turkish occupation of Cyprus and since such issues do at times counter what civilised societies require, I can see no reason why Greece (or any other nation in the European Union) should not exhibit their solidarity by demonstrating alongside their European brothers.

Furthermore, it might be a fine idea if ALL member states unfurled their flags in support of Cyprus' demands that the Turkish military forces should leave the island.

It's more of a "fine ideal," Floda. The fact remains that the Greek national flag is a symbol of "enosis" to most ethnic Turks of Cyprus. Likewise, the Turkish national flag symbolizes "taksim" to most ethnic Greeks of Cyprus. All other national flags are relatively benign compared to these.

The only flags likely to cause any offence to those who have considered the 'Origination' of the troubles in Cyprus ( and I refer to many years PRIOR to the invasion) are those of the USA, UK and ISRAEL. (IMHO)

The UK's involvement and sanctioning of ALL the political manoeuvres which preceded the invasion are now well known, what is less clear is what is envisaged for the future of Cyprus.

My own view is that ( noting the underhandedness of the past ) it is something of an irony that this march/demonstration should be taking place in London where the 'Union Flag' is predominant and quite frankly, it saddens me to observe so many Cypriots apparently oblivious to the fact that their efforts are completely ignored by the government of the country which created (in a significant part) their dilemma.

Another worthy example of the UK's political chicanery, quite 'Tongue in Cheek' in a political sense.

I purposely omitted the 'Turkish Flag', since it quite obviously would have NO place in the demonstration, I do believe it will be found to be quite acceptable among the three aforementioned, when the 'Behind the Scenes' talks take place and the NEXT political manoeuvre is made which will best suit the 'Famous Four' (particularly Israel).

Cyprus' requirements being the least of their real concerns of course.

[Oracle]

So, based on intuition, what do you think would be the most likely outcome from following this Turk-pleasing gesture of not flying any Greek flags, in support of Cyprus' cause:

The Turks having achieved this 'no Greek flag-flying' objective say, "Great, ...

1) ... no danger from Greek support, let's leave Cyprus alone!

2) ... that worked well, let's stop them speaking Greek now!

You've got it all wrong - flying the Greek flag pleases Turkey immensely.

They are the ones who refer to the republic as 'Greek Cyprus', the president, as the 'Greek leader' and have tried to convince the world that Cyprus should be divided along ethnic lines and that the problem was solved in 1974. Flying the Greek flag helps with Turkey's propaganda.

It amazes me that you can't see what is becoming crystal clear to most Cypriots with an ounce of intelligence.

OK they've managed to convince you that Greece is our enemy, and that Hellenism is not an integral part of the majority of Cypriots ... And you think you intelligently came to that conclusion all by yourself?

So, as I asked, Cypriot, what's next? They stop us speaking Greek?

Oh, that's right! You are way ahead of everyone there, because you are going to speak the Official language of Gybreika! (how do you spell that latinized Greek again? )

... and of course that is what the Turks are striving at all along; to help us find our true Cypriot identity, and appeal to our Cypriot ethnicity.

... and once they have conned us all to think like you, that we are no longer Greek-associated, that we are all just Cypriots, including perhaps any "putative Cypriots" they wish to dump over at any time from Anatolia -- because as soon as anyone sets foot on this soil they instantly become"Cypriot", according to you -- (but Turkey never forgets they are always Turkish) and Bingo, liberal forward thinking Turkey has her job done, by you! To make us all Cypriots (apart from the ones Turkey keeps her eye on as Turks - but to you, they are Cypriot) under the Republic of Cyprus ... Oh wait, it doesn't recognise that for some reason? It tried to invade in 1964 when Cyprus was aiming to become truly independent, just for democratically equal Cypriots. Greece didn't object to that attempt towards true Cyprus Independence; ONLY Turkey did! .... So how do you square up with that? It failed because of the Greek support towards full democratic independence for Cyprus. So what should Turkey do in future? Make the Greeks the enemy and let Cypriots do its job for it, from within (or UK in your case)!

I don't think Turkey was happy when Cyprus was nearing completion as a truly independent Republic ... So, why do you think it will accept Cyprus as the Republic of Cyprus now, if you made it 100% Cypriot, without any Greek language, without a Greek Church, without Greek associations? Greece accepts a truly independent Cyprus ... So that is why the Turks want you to believe Greece are the enemy of Cyprus ...

Because, although Turkey knows Greece has never had any intentions of ruling us, it has managed to make YOU think it is our clear and present danger!

Do you truly believe Turkey will ever give up on its interest in Cyprus? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek universities? Even if Cypriots stopped speaking Greek? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek Orthodox Churches?

A perfectly sanitised Cyprus is what the Turks are aiming for ... no Greek influence, and then no EU influence ... the road to our isolation has begun, with you digging the path for the Turks ...

You fail to see the contradiction. You are making it so easy for the Turks to ISOLATE us completely ... first from Greece and then the EU ... that is how they are Turkifying the island, by first removing our predominantly Greek associations!

Give it up Cypriot ... you are seriously conned.

Is it so complex to understand? Read Othello!

(No time to check for errors, last post for today!)

[Floda]

So, based on intuition, what do you think would be the most likely outcome from following this Turk-pleasing gesture of not flying any Greek flags, in support of Cyprus' cause:

The Turks having achieved this 'no Greek flag-flying' objective say, "Great, ...

1) ... no danger from Greek support, let's leave Cyprus alone!

2) ... that worked well, let's stop them speaking Greek now!

You've got it all wrong - flying the Greek flag pleases Turkey immensely.

They are the ones who refer to the republic as 'Greek Cyprus', the president, as the 'Greek leader' and have tried to convince the world that Cyprus should be divided along ethnic lines and that the problem was solved in 1974. Flying the Greek flag helps with Turkey's propaganda.

It amazes me that you can't see what is becoming crystal clear to most Cypriots with an ounce of intelligence.

OK they've managed to convince you that Greece is our enemy, and that Hellenism is not an integral part of the majority of Cypriots ... And you think you intelligently came to that conclusion all by yourself?

So, as I asked, Cypriot, what's next? They stop us speaking Greek?

Oh, that's right! You are way ahead of everyone there, because you are going to speak the Official language of Gybreika! (how do you spell that latinized Greek again? )

... and of course that is what the Turks are striving at all along; to help us find our true Cypriot identity, and appeal to our Cypriot ethnicity.

... and once they have conned us all to think like you, that we are no longer Greek-associated, that we are all just Cypriots, including perhaps any "putative Cypriots" they wish to dump over at any time from Anatolia -- because as soon as anyone sets foot on this soil they instantly become"Cypriot", according to you -- (but Turkey never forgets they are always Turkish) and Bingo, liberal forward thinking Turkey has her job done, by you! To make us all Cypriots (apart from the ones Turkey keeps her eye on as Turks - but to you, they are Cypriot) under the Republic of Cyprus ... Oh wait, it doesn't recognise that for some reason? It tried to invade in 1964 when Cyprus was aiming to become truly independent, just for democratically equal Cypriots. Greece didn't object to that attempt towards true Cyprus Independence; ONLY Turkey did! .... So how do you square up with that? It failed because of the Greek support towards full democratic independence for Cyprus. So what should Turkey do in future? Make the Greeks the enemy and let Cypriots do its job for it, from within (or UK in your case)!

I don't think Turkey was happy when Cyprus was nearing completion as a truly independent Republic ... So, why do you think it will accept Cyprus as the Republic of Cyprus now, if you made it 100% Cypriot, without any Greek language, without a Greek Church, without Greek associations? Greece accepts a truly independent Cyprus ... So that is why the Turks want you to believe Greece are the enemy of Cyprus ...

Because, although Turkey knows Greece has never had any intentions of ruling us, it has managed to make YOU think it is our clear and present danger!

Do you truly believe Turkey will ever give up on its interest in Cyprus? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek universities? Even if Cypriots stopped speaking Greek? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek Orthodox Churches?

A perfectly sanitised Cyprus is what the Turks are aiming for ... no Greek influence, and then no EU influence ... the road to our isolation has begun, with you digging the path for the Turks ...

You fail to see the contradiction. You are making it so easy for the Turks to ISOLATE us completely ... first from Greece and then the EU ... that is how they are Turkifying the island, by first removing our predominantly Greek associations!

Give it up Cypriot ... you are seriously conned.

Is it so complex to understand? Read Othello!

(No time to check for errors, last post for today!)

And very well presented, (if I may be so bold)

[miltiades]

So, based on intuition, what do you think would be the most likely outcome from following this Turk-pleasing gesture of not flying any Greek flags, in support of Cyprus' cause:

The Turks having achieved this 'no Greek flag-flying' objective say, "Great, ...

1) ... no danger from Greek support, let's leave Cyprus alone!

2) ... that worked well, let's stop them speaking Greek now!

You've got it all wrong - flying the Greek flag pleases Turkey immensely.

They are the ones who refer to the republic as 'Greek Cyprus', the president, as the 'Greek leader' and have tried to convince the world that Cyprus should be divided along ethnic lines and that the problem was solved in 1974. Flying the Greek flag helps with Turkey's propaganda.

It amazes me that you can't see what is becoming crystal clear to most Cypriots with an ounce of intelligence.

OK they've managed to convince you that Greece is our enemy, and that Hellenism is not an integral part of the majority of Cypriots ... And you think you intelligently came to that conclusion all by yourself?

So, as I asked, Cypriot, what's next? They stop us speaking Greek?

Oh, that's right! You are way ahead of everyone there, because you are going to speak the Official language of Gybreika! (how do you spell that latinized Greek again? )

... and of course that is what the Turks are striving at all along; to help us find our true Cypriot identity, and appeal to our Cypriot ethnicity.

... and once they have conned us all to think like you, that we are no longer Greek-associated, that we are all just Cypriots, including perhaps any "putative Cypriots" they wish to dump over at any time from Anatolia -- because as soon as anyone sets foot on this soil they instantly become"Cypriot", according to you -- (but Turkey never forgets they are always Turkish) and Bingo, liberal forward thinking Turkey has her job done, by you! To make us all Cypriots (apart from the ones Turkey keeps her eye on as Turks - but to you, they are Cypriot) under the Republic of Cyprus ... Oh wait, it doesn't recognise that for some reason? It tried to invade in 1964 when Cyprus was aiming to become truly independent, just for democratically equal Cypriots. Greece didn't object to that attempt towards true Cyprus Independence; ONLY Turkey did! .... So how do you square up with that? It failed because of the Greek support towards full democratic independence for Cyprus. So what should Turkey do in future? Make the Greeks the enemy and let Cypriots do its job for it, from within (or UK in your case)!

I don't think Turkey was happy when Cyprus was nearing completion as a truly independent Republic ... So, why do you think it will accept Cyprus as the Republic of Cyprus now, if you made it 100% Cypriot, without any Greek language, without a Greek Church, without Greek associations? Greece accepts a truly independent Cyprus ... So that is why the Turks want you to believe Greece are the enemy of Cyprus ...

Because, although Turkey knows Greece has never had any intentions of ruling us, it has managed to make YOU think it is our clear and present danger!

Do you truly believe Turkey will ever give up on its interest in Cyprus? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek universities? Even if Cypriots stopped speaking Greek? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek Orthodox Churches?

A perfectly sanitised Cyprus is what the Turks are aiming for ... no Greek influence, and then no EU influence ... the road to our isolation has begun, with you digging the path for the Turks ...

You fail to see the contradiction. You are making it so easy for the Turks to ISOLATE us completely ... first from Greece and then the EU ... that is how they are Turkifying the island, by first removing our predominantly Greek associations!

Give it up Cypriot ... you are seriously conned.

Is it so complex to understand? Read Othello!

(No time to check for errors, last post for today!)

Firstly let me express my regret that due to unforeseen events beyond my control I shall be unable to attend today's march.

As far as Oracle's assertion that those of us who are Cypriots above all else will abandon our mother tongue ie Greek , or deny that we are G/Cs , and forgo our identities may I say how terribly wrong she is .
The RoC government is a Cypriot Parliament , in fact we also have one Armenian Cypriot , the fact that with one exception all are G/Cs it does not translate that the Government is Greek , if that was the case then it would be in accordance with Turkey's position ie that there are two nations in Cyprus one of Greeks and one of Turks.
None of us is in denial that we are closely connected to Greece through language , religion , educational system etc , what we believe in however is that Cyprus is an independent nation on its own merit and recognised as such worldwide.
Nothing would please Turkey more than for us to give up our Cypriot independence and refer to our island as Greek Cyprus , precisely what Oracle believes along with other half baked so called Cypriots .
One guy is so obsessively anti West that I'm willing to bet that he is suffering from a mental illness !!
In fact this halfwit claims that the USA is wholly responsible for the coup of 1974 , he even suggested that the destitute men women and children of the Ayios Stephanos Home are there as a result of the British administration of the past.So obsessed is he with this paranoia that the best we can do is to have a collection for him so that he may receive some treatment.

Oracle is of course utterly opposed to the efforts of the RoC and very much in support of the Turkish position , ie Greek Cyprus .

[The Cypriot]

OK they've managed to convince you that Greece is our enemy,

Rubbish. They've convinced me of no such thing. I've never said Greece is our enemy. Don't put words in my mouth.

and that Hellenism is not an integral part of the majority of Cypriots

I've never said that either. I choose what I say about that very carefully. But you draw the wrong conclusion, because anyone who doesn't subscribe to your world view is a Turk lover.

... And you think you intelligently came to that conclusion all by yourself?

No. You think I'm a victim of Turkey's propaganda. And you're wrong.

So, as I asked, Cypriot, what's next? They stop us speaking Greek?

Oh, that's right! You are way ahead of everyone there, because you are going to speak the Official language of Gybreika! (how do you spell that latinized Greek again? )

Only a cultural imperialist would describe the unique, rich and expressive language of Cyprus as a latinized version of Greek. The lingua franca of a united Cyprus will be English. We've already discussed this at length before. What people choose to speak in their own homes, in their own communities will be up to them.

... and of course that is what the Turks are striving at all along; to help us find our true Cypriot identity, and appeal to our Cypriot ethnicity.

What are you talking about?

... and once they have conned us all to think like you, that we are no longer Greek-associated, that we are all just Cypriots, including perhaps any "putative Cypriots" they wish to dump over at any time from Anatolia -- because as soon as anyone sets foot on this soil they instantly become"Cypriot", according to you

Where have I said that? Show me the link or withdraw this comment. We have to deal with enough propaganda from the Turks without you making things up to suit your warped word view and to besmirch people's character. Shame on you for doing so to a fellow Cypriot who strives for freedom, as allegedly, you do.

-- (but Turkey never forgets they are always Turkish) and Bingo, liberal forward thinking Turkey has her job done, by you!

Utter rubbish.

To make us all Cypriots

Please provide me with some proof that it is Turkey's strategy to make us all Cypriots. Turkey's strategy is to divide Cyprus into 'Turkish Cyprus' and 'Greek Cyprus'.

(apart from the ones Turkey keeps her eye on as Turks - but to you, they are Cypriot) under the Republic of Cyprus ... Oh wait, it doesn't recognise that for some reason? It tried to invade in 1964 when Cyprus was aiming to become truly independent, just for democratically equal Cypriots. Greece didn't object to that attempt towards true Cyprus Independence; ONLY Turkey did! .... So how do you square up with that?

I'm not an apologist for Turkey so why should I?

It failed because of the Greek support towards full democratic independence for Cyprus.

Great! Shame the junta came along to spoil it all.

So what should Turkey do in future? Make the Greeks the enemy and let Cypriots do its job for it, from within (or UK in your case)!

The Greeks are not the enemy of Cyprus. The Turks don't want Greeks to be the enemy in Cyprus. They want to carve Cyprus up between Greece and Turkey.

I don't think Turkey was happy when Cyprus was nearing completion as a truly independent Republic ... So, why do you think it will accept Cyprus as the Republic of Cyprus now, if you made it 100% Cypriot,

100% Cypriot is what I am striving for whether Turkey accepts it or not. What are you striving for, Oracle?

without any Greek language, without a Greek Church, without Greek associations?

These issues (language and religion) have been discussed at length in other threads. Cyprus is part of the EU. It will always have associations with Greece and its other European partners.

Greece accepts a truly independent Cyprus ... So that is why the Turks want you to believe Greece are the enemy of Cyprus ...

I do not believe Greece is the enemy of Cyprus. I do not believe Turkey wants me to believe Greece is the enemy of Cyprus. This is your imagination.

Because, although Turkey knows Greece has never had any intentions of ruling us, it has managed to make YOU think it is our clear and present danger!

No it hasn't. This is total rubbish.

Do you truly believe Turkey will ever give up on its interest in Cyprus?

No I don't.

Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek universities? Even if Cypriots stopped speaking Greek? Even if Cypriots stopped going to Greek Orthodox Churches?

No I don't, although I refer you to previous discussions on language and religion. Cyprus was Christian before Greece, by the way.

A perfectly sanitised Cyprus is what the Turks are aiming for ... no Greek influence, and then no EU influence ...

Perhaps those on the forum who know more about Turkey's aims in Cyprus can confirm if this is the case. Cyprus is in the EU. What is Turkey going to do? Force Cyprus to withdraw?

the road to our isolation has begun, with you digging the path for the Turks ...

I am not digging the path for the Turks. This is a nasty, unsubstantiated slur on my character.

You fail to see the contradiction. You are making it so easy for the Turks to ISOLATE us completely ...

Utter rubbish.

first from Greece

Why? Because I don't think flying the Greek flag at a demonstration calling for a reunified Cyprus, is such a good idea?

and then the EU ...

The EU? How are any of my actions isolating Cyprus from the EU? These are just your hallucinations.

that is how they are Turkifying the island, by first removing our predominantly Greek associations!

They are Turkifying the island by removing everything that is not Turkish and introducing everything that is Turkish in the north.

Give it up Cypriot ... you are seriously conned.

Unless I receive some retractions from you – on some of the scurrilous and unsubstantiated claims you've made about me, I will give up on you. No one has conned me and I will not allow you to con others into believing that I have anything other than Cyprus's best interests at heart.

Is it so complex to understand?

Most of what you've posted is nonsense. So yes.

(No time to check for errors

Don't I know it.