Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

What would you do if you could turn back the clock to 1960 and you were the President of Cyprus?

I would not signed the Zurich agreement and I would insisted on Greek Cypriots full rights in Cyprus

He tried to do that initially, but Karamanlis, the greek prime minister, threatened him that Greece would abandon Cyprus from any future help.

Therefore, it was not a matter of choice.

Fully true. This was the case and the funny is that Karamanlis still considered as a "Great leader".

[bill cobbett]

What would you do if you could turn back the clock to 1960 and you were the President of Cyprus?

I would not signed the Zurich agreement and I would insisted on Greek Cypriots full rights in Cyprus

He tried to do that initially, but Karamanlis, the greek prime minister, threatened him that Greece would abandon Cyprus from any future help.

Therefore, it was not a matter of choice.

Fully true. This was the case and the funny is that Karamanlis still considered as a "Great leader".

Agreed, Big Mak was under huge, huge pressure from all sides to sign.

[Oracle]

There you go again you Greek speaking, democracy seeking, 'Christian' Cypriot!

I'm sorry you disapprove of me exercising my freedom of thought and expression.

I don't disapprove ... that is what you are after all (I approve of you, immensely). Just showing the many ways one can ascribe identity.

I don't think you are being honest now as you did tell bill it was to send the "right signals"

Is this the best you can do, to catch me out, to prove I'm dishonest? And what do you hope to achieve by doing so?

To make you perfect ....

He did choose his "call" and he became an Archbishop.

Then the majority of the Cypriot people chose him as a leader, despite being a priest ... So, where was the controversy?

If you can't see the hypothetical point I'm trying to make, even now, looking back, with 20:20 hindsight (which is after all the purpose of this thread) you have an inpregnable blind spot.

Hmph! That was my statement ... NOT yours!

Obviously we see eye to eye without blind spots!

Makarios enacted his leadership without dispensing with his priesthood and his dignity ... no matter who may have been "impressed" if he had.

I believe you're implying, rather crudely, that I am somehow dispensing with my dignity and that I do things to "impress" people because I am unequivocal about my Cypriot identity, today, in 2009.

Just checking ....

It's unbecoming of you as well as incredibly annoying to me.

A nuisance, dedicated to sanity.

[The Cypriot]

A nuisance, dedicated to sanity.

You're certainly the former... O, but there are times when you drive me to insanity!

[bill cobbett]

Think we would all agree that Big Mak (may he rest in piece) was under great pressure to sign Zurich in 59. Pressure from the greater powers and including the natural ally. To sign an unworkable and biased and racist agreement that favoured the interests of outsiders.

Is 59 being repeated today? Pres X must under great and increasing pressure and threats and blackmail from the same usual suspects to settle with similarly unstable terms.

Have some not learnt that any settlement must be based on first principles? Those same principles that apply in practically every other country? Those same human rights we all value so much and, at the nation level, those same rights of independent sovereignty that are respected worldwide.

I fear the past is repeating itself.

[Get Real!]

If I were Makarios during the late 50s I would’ve…

1. Listened to Tasos Pappadopoulos who forewarned him of the disastrous and illegal agreements he was about to sign contravening the UN Charter.

2. Pursued the FULL independence of Cyprus in accordance with the UN’s declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples… (no granting of British bases were necessary)

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

3. Called upon the UN to assist Cyprus in the formation of a democratic one-man-one vote constitution along with democratic elections, etc.

4. Formed a National Guard intentionally comprised of ALL Cypriots to suppress all partitionistic activities.

5. Scrapped all references to “mother” countries and dual “ethnicities” and similar rubbish.

6. Outlawed all community-based organizations, gatherings, movements, racism between ethnicities, etc, with severe punishments. Group leaders I would execute in public under legislation pertaining to treason to make an example of them. By eliminating the major trouble makers early on (Grivas, Denktash, Samson, etc) you would’ve saved thousands of mostly innocent people from perishing later.


Etc, and Cyprus would’ve gradually settled down as a SOVEREIGN SINGLE PEOPLE as it should’ve been from the start.

[bill cobbett]

If I were Makarios during the late 50s I would’ve…

1. Listened to Tasos Pappadopoulos who forewarned him of the disastrous and illegal agreements he was about to sign contravening the UN Charter.

2. Pursued the FULL independence of Cyprus in accordance with the UN’s declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples… (no granting of British bases were necessary)

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm

3. Called upon the UN to assist Cyprus in the formation of a democratic one-man-one vote constitution along with democratic elections, etc.

4. Formed a National Guard intentionally comprised of ALL Cypriots to suppress all partitionistic activities.

5. Scrapped all references to “mother” countries and dual “ethnicities” and similar rubbish.

6. Outlawed all community-based organizations, gatherings, movements, racism between ethnicities, etc, with severe punishments. Group leaders I would execute in public under legislation pertaining to treason to make an example of them. By eliminating the major trouble makers early on (Grivas, Denktash, Samson, etc) you would’ve saved thousands of mostly innocent people from perishing later.


Etc, and Cyprus would’ve gradually settled down as a SOVEREIGN SINGLE PEOPLE as it should’ve been from the start.

Absolutely Unkie,

Regretfully, I have to say, we're in danger of repeating the same mistakes of 1959 in 2009.

[repulsewarrior]

Mak chose to sign, some say it was his idea at the eleventh hour; basically had the Zurich Agreement not been signed the alternative would have been partition (may I add, all the interlocutors' choice).

what would I have done...?

please read my manifesto.