Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

I think makarios shouldn't have agreed to UK's plan the first place and i would switch turky for russia to protect us.... but that's in 1959.....

You guys think it is easy being at his place

Not at all. Makarios was an amazing, charismatic leader, there's no denying. And it's very easy, with 20:20 hindsight, to pick holes in what he did... but that is, after all, the subject of this thread.

[denizaksulu]

After the Republic was formed, Makarios did get some respect from the 'Turkish Community' at the time. Members of my family had the picture of Makarios with Dr. Kucuk on the wall, and there were high hopes for the future.

I dont know if Pres. Makarios was to blame for the 13 points, but I am sure he was under pressure from some 'extreme' element. Because of this, he failed to keep his eye on the pulse of the 'Turkish Community'. The changes could have been handled with more delicacy.

He must have been aware of Turkeys 'eventual intentions' or the TMT's activities. Had he had his finger on the right pulse, he would not have 'fallen into the trap'. He was badly advised by perhaps the likes of Yorgadjis and Kyprianou (not to mention Lyssarides).

No point cryingover spilt milk. Lets search through the embers and see what can be salvaged.

Regards

[Oracle]

... Talking of signals, I'd also have given up the archbishopric, shaved, donned a suit and focused on being a President for all the island's people. It's what Jesus would have wanted, I think.

May I just venture a small criticism, on a tiny character flaw in your otherwise impeccable make-up?

I'll take your silence as a "yes" .....

... You seem too ready to dispense with important elements at the drop of a hat! I think it shows a certain lack of commitment and honesty to one's values (and sends the wrong signals to me!).

Just as you have seen fit to denounce your Greek heritage, in order to send the "right signals" to the Turks, you seem to think Makarios would have been more dignified and sent the "right signals" by betraying his calling ... Just to please the Turks?

[denizaksulu]

... Talking of signals, I'd also have given up the archbishopric, shaved, donned a suit and focused on being a President for all the island's people. It's what Jesus would have wanted, I think.

May I just venture a small criticism, on a tiny character flaw in your otherwise impeccable make-up?

I'll take your silence as a "yes" .....

... You seem too ready to dispense with important elements at the drop of a hat! I think it shows a certain lack of commitment and honesty to one's values (and sends the wrong signals to me!).

Just as you have seen fit to denounce your Greek heritage, in order to send the "right signals" to the Turks, you seem to think Makarios would have been more dignified and sent the "right signals" by betraying his calling ... Just to please the Turks?

Good Morning Oracle, sorry to butt in.
Having a GO Archbishop as the Head of the Cypriot people, consisting of Latins, Armenians, Moslems and The GO is a hefty burden. You cannot be the leaser of the Church and head of state at the same time. He should have chosen one or the other. IMO he should have stayed as the head of his church and keeping the respect of 'his' people - The Greek Orthodox. It became obvious that he was NO politician. He caved in to the hardliners/Rightists.

[The Cypriot]

... You seem too ready to dispense with important elements at the drop of a hat! I think it shows a certain lack of commitment and honesty to one's values (and sends the wrong signals to me!).

Just as you have seen fit to denounce your Greek heritage,

My heritage is Cypriot Oracle, and I denounce none of it, including the element which is termed 'Hellenic'.

in order to send the "right signals" to the Turks,

No. In order to be committed and honest to my values.

you seem to think Makarios would have been more dignified and sent the "right signals" by betraying his calling ... Just to please the Turks?

He should, in my opinion, with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, chosen what his call was. Leading a whole new nation out of the clutches of outside domination and local extremists, or leading a religious community. This is about leadership, not about pleasing Turks or any other foreigners.

When Jesus told the parable about the good Samaritan, it was to give a lesson in humanity; it was not to please the Samaritans.

[Oracle]

... You seem too ready to dispense with important elements at the drop of a hat! I think it shows a certain lack of commitment and honesty to one's values (and sends the wrong signals to me!).

Just as you have seen fit to denounce your Greek heritage,

My heritage is Cypriot Oracle, and I denounce none of it, including the element which is termed 'Hellenic'.

There you go again you Greek speaking, democracy seeking, 'Christian' Cypriot!

in order to send the "right signals" to the Turks,

No. In order to be committed and honest to my values.

I don't think you are being honest now as you did tell bill it was to send the "right signals"

you seem to think Makarios would have been more dignified and sent the "right signals" by betraying his calling ... Just to please the Turks?

He should, in my opinion, with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, chosen what his call was.

He did choose his "call" and he became an Archbishop.

Then the majority of the Cypriot people chose him as a leader, despite being a priest ... So, where was the controversy?

Leading a whole new nation out of the clutches of outside domination and local extremists, or leading a religious community. This is about leadership, not about pleasing Turks or any other foreigners.

Precisely! Makarios enacted his leadership without dispensing with his priesthood and his dignity ... no matter who may have been "impressed" if he had.

When Jesus told the parable about the good Samaritan, it was to give a lesson in humanity; it was not to please the Samaritans.

This doesn't fit in as rationalising by analogy ...

[Oracle]

Having a GO Archbishop as the Head of the Cypriot people, consisting of Latins, Armenians, Moslems and The GO is a hefty burden.

He was more af a man than most great men, and nothing was a burden for him!

You cannot be the leaser of the Church and head of state at the same time. He should have chosen one or the other. IMO he should have stayed as the head of his church and keeping the respect of 'his' people - The Greek Orthodox. It became obvious that he was NO politician. He caved in to the hardliners/Rightists.

Too bad!

He could; he was; he shouldn't; he did; he did; he was and he didn't!

.... And all as a priest!

Besides, he was elected ..... even if he was a priest!

So there!

(Good morning/afternoon)

[paliometoxo]

No enosis dream.

good point some had the dream of enosis which did not help..


on that note... no partition dream and telling the tmt to place a bomb on the turkish cypriots to make them think it was gcs and start the conflict

[EPSILON]

What would you do if you could turn back the clock to 1960 and you were the President of Cyprus?

I would not signed the Zurich agreement and I would insisted on Greek Cypriots full rights in Cyprus

[denizaksulu]

Having a GO Archbishop as the Head of the Cypriot people, consisting of Latins, Armenians, Moslems and The GO is a hefty burden.

He was more af a man than most great men, and nothing was a burden for him!

You cannot be the leaser of the Church and head of state at the same time. He should have chosen one or the other. IMO he should have stayed as the head of his church and keeping the respect of 'his' people - The Greek Orthodox. It became obvious that he was NO politician. He caved in to the hardliners/Rightists.

Too bad!

He could; he was; he shouldn't; he did; he did; he was and he didn't!

.... And all as a priest!

Besides, he was elected ..... even if he was a priest!

So there!

(Good morning/afternoon)

Is this what they call 'short shrift'?


The question posed was a hypothetical one. On hind sight it would have been better for a 'stronger' president being elected, who would not have caved in to extremist views. I would not have included ex-EOKA members in my cabinet, nor should the 'Turkish Community' have included TMT members either. But there lies the problem. The extremists would have got what they wanted by force of arms anyway. Back to square one. Hmmm!

As to Pres. Makarios success, the coup belies that statement. It was obvious that there was a minority of Cypriots who wished to see the back of him.