Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Thanks for the article Rafaella. I shall come to the conclusion that untill a permament settlement is established in Cyprus, both sides should not demand their properties. This quote pretty much summarises all:

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

[RAFAELLA]

Thanks for the article Rafaella. I shall come to the conclusion that untill a permament settlement is established in Cyprus, both sides should not demand their properties. This quote pretty much summarises all:

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

You are welcome Gabaston.
The way CyR "treats" your properties has nothing to do with the way you "treat" our properties, correct?
What if the CyR started selling your properties to foreigners?
What if your properties were given to Gcs and Gcs started claiming that they are theirs?
Well?

[garbitsch]

I think I am Garbitsch not Gabaston.

In any case, your side is also mistreating Turkish properties. Expropriating Turkish properties is as bad as selling Greek properties to foreigners. In the end, no one can enjoy their properties.

[Anglo]

Thanks for the article Rafaella. I shall come to the conclusion that untill a permament settlement is established in Cyprus, both sides should not demand their properties. This quote pretty much summarises all:

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Looks like that pesky A-Plan just won't go away...

By the way, I heard 'on the grapevine' that $7billion is being earmarked by the US, UK and Turkey in preparation for compensation pay offs to GCs who can prove they did not receive compensation for their lost properties.

[brother]

What if your properties were given to Gcs and Gcs started claiming that they are theirs?

Ermmm they are, my family lands have got business's on them and others have houses built on them, other lands are being used to produce fruit and sell, and we have no rights to claim them back hence when we spoke to the occupants they were unwilling to leave them and made some very smug remarks, like the tc they have been using and living there for 30 plus years now and thus see it as their homes now.

If i can be open minded enough to see this and be understanding then why can you not also

[Kifeas]

Thanks for the article Rafaella. I shall come to the conclusion that untill a permament settlement is established in Cyprus, both sides should not demand their properties. This quote pretty much summarises all:

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Looks like that pesky A-Plan just won't go away...

By the way, I heard 'on the grapevine' that $7billion is being earmarked by the US, UK and Turkey in preparation for compensation pay offs to GCs who can prove they did not receive compensation for their lost properties.

Prove! Since when it is up to the victim to prove that s/he did not receive compensation! Of course the entire rumour is a joke, to begin with!

[Anglo]

Thanks for the article Rafaella. I shall come to the conclusion that untill a permament settlement is established in Cyprus, both sides should not demand their properties. This quote pretty much summarises all:

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Looks like that pesky A-Plan just won't go away...

By the way, I heard 'on the grapevine' that $7billion is being earmarked by the US, UK and Turkey in preparation for compensation pay offs to GCs who can prove they did not receive compensation for their lost properties.

Prove! Since when it is up to the victim to prove that s/he did not receive compensation! Of course the entire rumour is a joke, to begin with!

You are right about it being a rumour at the moment but it seems like a very sensible idea and the only one that may remove the logjam. As regards proving eligibility - I don't know what would work. You are right, the burden of proof should be with the compensation committee not the dispossessed owners.

[MicAtCyp]

In any case, your side is also mistreating Turkish properties. Expropriating Turkish properties is as bad as selling Greek properties to foreigners. In the end, no one can enjoy their properties.

If 1.6% within 31 years (1 donum every 2000 per year) is mistreating and massive expropriation then I remain speacless.Here are the facts:

Percentage of expropriated privately owned lands from 1974 until today amounts to 1.6% and is shared about equally among GC and TC properties.
From 1974 up until today there were expropriated 94, 000 donums of land. Out of them 79, 000 belonged to GCs and 15, 000 to TCs. The percentage is 84% GC and 16% TC.

***************************
Regarding the total amount of Tc owned land ( in donums) I already gave the figures many times in this forum in the past. Repeated herebelow:

1974 shares of properties (area-wise)

Free areas:
GC:59,8 %
TC: 9,7%
State: 27,2%
Other: %3,3
Total: 100%

Occupied Areas

GC:58,2 %
TC:16,2 %
State: 22,8%
Other: 2,8%
Total:100 %

1974 shares of properties (value -wise)

Free areas

GC:82.4 %
TC:4,2 %
State: 6,1%
Other: 7,3%
Total:100 %

Occupied areas

GC:79.1 %
TC:8,5 %
State: 8,4%
Other: 4,0%
Total:100 %



Average price of land in 1974 in CYPounds per scala
Free areas

GC:663
TC:206
State: 104
Other: 1547
Total:481 (average)

Average price of land in 1974 in CYPounds per scala
Occupied areas

GC:1346
TC:519
State: 363
Other: 1432
Total:990 (average)




NUMBER OF SCALAS OF LAND (1 Scala=0.33 acres=0.1338 Hectares)
CYPRUS
GC 4,182,967
TC 852,455
State 1,847,820
Other 32,150
Total 6,915,392

OCCUPIED
GC 1,460,643
TC 379,146
State 559,602
Other 5,935
Total 2,405,326

FREE AREAS
GC 2,722,324
TC 473,309
State 1,288,218
Other 26,215
Total 4,510,066

CYPRUS
GC 60.49%
TC 12.33%
State 26.72%
Other 0.46%
Total 100.00%

OCCUPIED
GC 60.73%
TC 15.76%
State 23.27%
Other 0.25%
Total 100.00%

FREE AREAS
GC 60.36%
TC 10.49%
State 28.56%
Other 0.58%
Total 100.00%



Values of lands in 1974 per scala Billions worth as per 1974 prices

OCCUPIED
GC £ 1,346
TC £ 519
State £ 363
Other £ 1,432
Total £ 990

FREE AREAS
GC £ 663
TC £ 206
State £ 104
Other £ 1,547
Total £ 481

CYPRUS
GC 3.77
TC 0.29
State 0.34
Other 0.05
Total 4.55

UCCUPIED
GC 1.97
TC 0.2
State 0.2
Other 0.01
Total 2.38

FREE AR TOTAL
GC 1.8
TC 0.1
State 0.13
Other 0.04
Total 2.17



Percentage value wise:

TOTAL CY
GC 82.87%
TC 6.47%
State 7.41%
Other 1.08%
Total 100.00%

OCCUPIED
GC 82.56%
TC 8.26%
State 8.53%
Other 0.36%
Total 100.00%

FREE AREAS
GC 83.20%
TC 4.49%
State 6.18%
Other 1.87%
Total 100.00%



Notes:

1 Acre=4045.54 m2
1 Scala=1335.03 m2=approx 1 donum
1 Hectar= 9977.80 m2
1 Donum=1338 m2

[erolz]

Percentage of expropriated privately owned lands from 1974 until today amounts to 1.6% and is shared about equally among GC and TC properties.
From 1974 up until today there were expropriated 94, 000 donums of land. Out of them 79, 000 belonged to GCs and 15, 000 to TCs. The percentage is 84% GC and 16% TC.

These are pressumably the RoC figures on land officaly/legaly expropriated by the RoC?

The TC belief - supported by annecdotal evidence, is that some former TC land in the south has been 'effectively' expropriated by GC (indivduals, not the state) for use, economic exploitation and development for the benefit of the GC (indivduals) 'owners/controllers' and not the former TC owners and has been done so outside the legal framework of the state expropriating land for the communal benefit. It is the TC perception that these lands have been used 'illegaly' by the GC 'owners' to do exactly the things that GC accuse and complain that TC have done and that the RoC has simply turned a 'blind eye' to such exploitation.

[-mikkie2-]

It is the TC perception that these lands have been used 'illegaly' by the GC 'owners' to do exactly the things that GC accuse and complain that TC have done and that the RoC has simply turned a 'blind eye' to such exploitation.

Erol,

Judging by the comments of TC's in the forum, it seems that you have been sold on this story that we treat TC properties in the south in the same way that GC properties are treated in the north.

The affected TC properties are in all probability a small % of the overall land in the south.

The Guardian of TC properties was set up in the mid 80's I think. Prior to that, TC land was used for refugee housing as there was a dire need for this - where would 200000 refugees be put in the meantime? And yes, in the chaotic years after the invasion some land was probably misused which is why the guardian of TC properties was set up in order to put a stop to exploitation of land and property and to establish the true ownership of the land in anticipation of a solution.