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citizenship for returning Cypriots?

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Postby Oracle » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:24 pm

Piratis wrote:Most people are innocent people. This includes most settlers and their children, regardless if one of the parents is Cypriot or not, their children (like most of the parents) are innocent people that deserve to have their human rights.

The same holds true for soldiers, especially in countries like Cyprus, Turkey and Greece where every male is obligated to serve in the army and do what he is ordered.

Unfortunately certain fascist leaderships, like the one in Turkey, take away these human rights, not only of the people they invade, but also from many of their own people.

When in 1974 a Turkish soldier was ordered to come to Cyprus and execute the orders of murder and ethnic cleansing issued by the fascist regime of Ankara, that soldier could be a nice person like the rest of us, who deserved to have a good life with his human rights respected. Still, he was a pawn of the fascist regime of Ankara and his mission included the violation of the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus, the violation of the human rights of Cypriots, and many more illegalities and crimes against Cyprus. Republic of Cyprus had to fight against such soldiers, and try to take away from them their ultimate human right, the right for life, in order to protect Cyprus from the criminal plans of the Ankara regime. Is there anybody here who will blame the Cypriots for defending their own country and the lives of their families, and have no other option than to kill several such Turkish soldiers? Clearly the one responsible for the deaths of both Cypriots and the Turkish soldiers, is the fascist Ankara regime which started the war.

The same holds true for the Settlers. The Turkish Settlers in occupied Cyprus today are actually more than the Turkish Cypriots. Just like the Turkish soldiers, the settlers are the pawns of the fascist regime of Ankara which has as an aim to alter the demographics of the north part of Cyprus. The aim of Turkey is that eventually Turkish Settlers and Turkish Cypriots will eventually mix creating a new breed of "Turkish Cypriots" which would be much larger in size and who would dominate the north part of Cyprus, essentially making it an extension of Turkey. These Settlers and their offspring, even though most of them as individuals are innocent people, they were brought to Cyprus and are used by Ankara as the means to finish off the crime that was started against Cyprus in 1974.

From the very begging of this illegal colonization of Cyprus by Turkey, Cyprus has done its best to stop it from happening and protect in this way Cyprus and the Cypriots (including TCs) but also protect the Settlers themselves because by being used as the pawns to commit a crime they would eventually suffer as well. Unfortunately Turkey, once again, showed no regard to international law, international conventions, and the human rights of people. All these were sacrificed in the name of their ultimate aim, the Turkification of the north part of Cyprus.

Republic of Cyprus has no other choice other than to resist the illegal criminal policies of Ankara. These Settlers and their offspring are not entitled to Cypriot citizenship and that is to ensure that legally at least Turkey will not manage to create a permanent change in the demographics of Cyprus. If those Settlers feel that their human rights are violated in some way because of this, then they should blame Turkey for using them as the pawns for such illegal actions, and be reminded that Republic of Cyprus did all it could to stop this illegality from happening.

That said, and although Turkey has the 100% responsibility for the presence of illegal Turkish Settlers in Cyprus and the problems that this creates, Republic of Cyprus has indicated that is willing to help a certain number of these people if a fair solution to Cyprus problem is found. I believe that it is certain that if a solution is found soon that the children who have at least one Cypriot parent will be given the Cyprus citizenship, and this could happen for some other categories of Settlers as well, as long as their number is not big enough to have a significant impact on the demographics of Cyprus.

What more could one expect from Republic of Cyprus? Those (e.g. Shahmaran) who see the humanitarian and many other problems created by the presence of the Settlers in Cyprus and instead of blaming the illegal policies of Ankara they choose to blame Cyprus, are obviously so brainwashed that can not see further than their own nose.


Excellent overview! Thanks Piratis.
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Postby shahmaran » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:29 pm

Arslanian wrote:I'm not blaming the RoC, my family lost its home because of these invading people...however, I'm still not clear, are we talking about a child born from an illegal Turkish settler and an actual Cypriot woman? i.e a citizen of the RoC? I'm just interested to know...I mean, I have a British mother, her country is just as guilty as Turkey...point is, a child can't be blamed for the past...however, if Shahmaran is talking about a child born to two citizens of the illegal north, then I would agree with you Sotos. I did not mean to offend anyone by asking these questions and I am certainly not defending Turkey


Thank you for hearing me out Arslanian. 90% of the people here have totally lost their humanity due to their discriminative hate for anything Turkish. They have stopped making sense a long time a go.

ANYWHERE in Europe, if you are born there you will become a citizen, no one will ask you where your mother of father are from.

But down in the RoC, soon they will have the audacity to ask for a DNA test or maybe measure your freaking skull (or nose in their case :lol:) in order to decide whether if you are Cypriot or not.

A person born and raised in Cyprus with a Cypriot mother IS INDEED a Cypriot, probably more Cypriot than half of the fools here who are not even living in Cyprus. But according to the RoC they are "Turkish". So theoretically, if the TRNC unites with the RoC than a person who has never lived anywhere but Cyprus will suddenly fall into an immigrant status.

This is RACISM at its best and pretty much sums up the essence of the mentality they hold beneath the green line.

I see no difference between them and the Jews who cry about the Holocaust but have no problem murdering Palestinian children en mass next door. Hypocrisy is all I can say. This makes all their cry for human rights nothing but empty words manipulated for their own hegemonic benefits.

Shitos, Piratis and Oracle here happen to be the biggest Nazi's on this forum, only difference is Oracle manages to sound "intellectual", Piratis's whole argument is 1 paragrapsh long which he pastes relentlessly and Sotos is a right down moron. The guy calls me a criminal simply for being a Turkish Cypriot, I mean what else is there to say :lol: :lol:
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Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:36 pm

Shahmaran, mate, you are usually on the ball but you have got your facts wrong here. There are two conflicting principles that may be applied in determining who is entitled to citizenship, known in Latin as jus sanguinis and jus soli.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis

Jus sanguinis (Latin: right of blood) is a social policy by which nationality or citizenship is not determined by place of birth, but by having an ancestor who is a national or citizen of the state. It contrasts with jus soli (Latin for "right of soil").


Certain European countries apply the principle of jus sanguinis , such that, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_nationality_law

Polish nationality law is based upon the principles of jus sanguinis. Children born to Polish parents usually acquire citizenship irrespective of place of birth. Persons born in Poland to foreign parents do not normally become Polish citizens.


You will find that traditionally the Republic of Turkey has also applied the principle of jus sanguinis . If you study the text of law 403 concerning Turkish Nationality, you will find that persons born on Turkish soil to parents who were not Turkish nationals generally did not qualify for Turkish citizenship. This situation has been rectified in the recent law number 5901 which has replaced the earlier law.
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Postby dzimeruk » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:39 pm

Now this has been very interesting. Dear "Oracle"...the information that was given to me by the High Commission in my country, and the authorities in Cyprus, differ slightly with regard to a few points, which is why I came on here. Thankyou to Tim and others who have replied with helpful insight.
I find it interesting that "Oracle" thinks that because the Armenian and Turkish words for "lion" are similar, that I must be Turkish...Now it's not even that Shahmaran agree on every point, because we don't, but why is it that some people cannot handle it when someone wants to hear all the sides of a story? I'm not insulted by being called Turkish, because I'm not a racist, but it's very disturbing to hear people trying to use race as an insult...
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:26 pm

shahmaran wrote:
Arslanian wrote:I'm not blaming the RoC, my family lost its home because of these invading people...however, I'm still not clear, are we talking about a child born from an illegal Turkish settler and an actual Cypriot woman? i.e a citizen of the RoC? I'm just interested to know...I mean, I have a British mother, her country is just as guilty as Turkey...point is, a child can't be blamed for the past...however, if Shahmaran is talking about a child born to two citizens of the illegal north, then I would agree with you Sotos. I did not mean to offend anyone by asking these questions and I am certainly not defending Turkey


Thank you for hearing me out Arslanian. 90% of the people here have totally lost their humanity due to their discriminative hate for anything Turkish. They have stopped making sense a long time a go.

ANYWHERE in Europe, if you are born there you will become a citizen, no one will ask you where your mother of father are from.

But down in the RoC, soon they will have the audacity to ask for a DNA test or maybe measure your freaking skull (or nose in their case :lol:) in order to decide whether if you are Cypriot or not.

A person born and raised in Cyprus with a Cypriot mother IS INDEED a Cypriot, probably more Cypriot than half of the fools here who are not even living in Cyprus. But according to the RoC they are "Turkish". So theoretically, if the TRNC unites with the RoC than a person who has never lived anywhere but Cyprus will suddenly fall into an immigrant status.

This is RACISM at its best and pretty much sums up the essence of the mentality they hold beneath the green line.

I see no difference between them and the Jews who cry about the Holocaust but have no problem murdering Palestinian children en mass next door. Hypocrisy is all I can say. This makes all their cry for human rights nothing but empty words manipulated for their own hegemonic benefits.

Shitos, Piratis and Oracle here happen to be the biggest Nazi's on this forum, only difference is Oracle manages to sound "intellectual", Piratis's whole argument is 1 paragrapsh long which he pastes relentlessly and Sotos is a right down moron. The guy calls me a criminal simply for being a Turkish Cypriot, I mean what else is there to say :lol: :lol:


The whole argument is indeed simple and straightforward. Turkey illegally brought those Settlers in Cyprus with the aim to change the demographics of our country and Turkify the north part of the island. The Turkification process of course includes the mixing of those Settlers with TCs and them having children on the island. (Read some of Viewpoint's posts where he describes how fast these Anatolians multiply and how they will be the majority in Cyprus soon)

Instead of seeing the racism in Turkey's actions (ethnically cleansing the vast majority of Cypriots because they are Greek and Christian, and through illegal means replace them with Muslim Turks) you see racism in the actions of Republic of Cyprus which is nothing more than trying to protect itself from the illegal and racist actions of Turkey.

If those people and their children have a problem, the cause of their problem is the illegal actions of the fascist Turkish regime, which is using these people as the pawns for artificially increasing the number of Turks in Cyprus and Turkeyfying the north part of Cyprus.

I reassure you that if Turkey invades any other European country, ethnically cleansing its native population and then transfer Turkish settlers on the occupied territory in order to replace the ethnically cleansed natives, that the reaction of this other European country will be much harsher to Turkey and her settlers than just denying to them the citizenship.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:31 pm

I see no difference between them and the Jews who cry about the Holocaust but have no problem murdering Palestinian children en mass next door. Hypocrisy is all I can say. This makes all their cry for human rights nothing but empty words manipulated for their own hegemonic benefits.


Indeed my friend. Your hypocrisy is limitless. The Cypriot people have suffered for centuries and continue to suffer up to this day by the Turks. You killed 10s of thousands of innocent Cypriots, ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of natives, transferred to our island 100s of thousands of foreign Settlers with the aim to change the demographics and Turkify our island, and still you have the audacity to accuse Cyprus because we are trying to protect our island from your illegal invasions and the illegal colonization of our island. :roll:
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Postby Oracle » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:32 pm

Arslanian wrote:Now this has been very interesting. Dear "Oracle"...the information that was given to me by the High Commission in my country, and the authorities in Cyprus, differ slightly with regard to a few points, which is why I came on here. Thankyou to Tim and others who have replied with helpful insight.
I find it interesting that "Oracle" thinks that because the Armenian and Turkish words for "lion" are similar, that I must be Turkish...Now it's not even that Shahmaran agree on every point, because we don't, but why is it that some people cannot handle it when someone wants to hear all the sides of a story? I'm not insulted by being called Turkish, because I'm not a racist, but it's very disturbing to hear people trying to use race as an insult...


You have jumped on some preformed agenda of yours accusing all and sundry of all sorts. The mind of someone harbouring ill-intent perhaps?

Oracle wrote:Isn't Arslan some Turkish name? :?


Now, please enlighten me on where or when I said you were Turkish?
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:47 pm

Oracle wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Its what happens when the UN gives all the green lights to a fascist and racist state...


Arslanian asked about Cyprus not Turkey! Who in their right mind would want the Turkish citizenship? Even the Turks want a citizenship from an EU country.


Isn't Arslan some Turkish name? :?



You are right Oracle. Many Armenians in the Ottoman Empire did have Turkish surnames + -ian at the end. Like the famous Ouzounian & Soultanian dynasty. Their first names were always Armenian. After the disasters in Anatolia many of these survivors ended up in Cyprus and lived among the Turkish Cypriot population where we enjoyed immensely each others company. I lived for a while in the Neapolis area among many Armenians then moved to the Kiosklu Chiftlik area where there were many more. We were in each others homes all the time. In 1963 the TMT ended all this. Sad.
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Postby kurupetos » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:51 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Sotos wrote:
Its what happens when the UN gives all the green lights to a fascist and racist state...


Arslanian asked about Cyprus not Turkey! Who in their right mind would want the Turkish citizenship? Even the Turks want a citizenship from an EU country.


Isn't Arslan some Turkish name? :?



You are right Oracle. Many Armenians in the Ottoman Empire did have Turkish surnames + -ian at the end. Like the famous Ouzounian & Soultanian dynasty. Their first names were always Armenian. After the disasters in Anatolia many of these survivors ended up in Cyprus and lived among the Turkish Cypriot population where we enjoyed immensely each others company. I lived for a while in the Neapolis area among many Armenians then moved to the Kiosklu Chiftlik area where there were many more. We were in each others homes all the time. In 1963 the TMT ended all this. Sad.


Indeed! :wink:
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Postby shahmaran » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:24 pm

Piratis wrote:
I see no difference between them and the Jews who cry about the Holocaust but have no problem murdering Palestinian children en mass next door. Hypocrisy is all I can say. This makes all their cry for human rights nothing but empty words manipulated for their own hegemonic benefits.


Indeed my friend. Your hypocrisy is limitless. The Cypriot people have suffered for centuries and continue to suffer up to this day by the Turks. You killed 10s of thousands of innocent Cypriots, ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands of natives, transferred to our island 100s of thousands of foreign Settlers with the aim to change the demographics and Turkify our island, and still you have the audacity to accuse Cyprus because we are trying to protect our island from your illegal invasions and the illegal colonization of our island. :roll:


Piratis tends to "write" his own version of the islands history and then bases everything on top of that, which magically tends to fit in perfect with his racist thesis.

You are still not saying anything different Piratis, same old same old.

Are you not surprised that not even many GC's dont agree with you?

That has gotta mean something even to the thickest of the logs...
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