Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

Then the guarantees will remain in place.

t/c papers reporting that guranttes will either be from EU or in the case of turkey only gurante the northern state.

[Kikapu]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

[Kikapu]

Then the guarantees will remain in place.

t/c papers reporting that guranttes will either be from EU or in the case of turkey only gurante the northern state.

It cannot be just for north state, because north state will be the territory of the new unified country under a Federation. This can never happen. Only if it was a separate sovereign state and the unification will be between such states, as Annan Plan had in mind. BBF UN resolutions is 180° away from anything to do with the AP. It will be over all of Cyprus or nothing. You cannot be a little bit pregnant. Same thing here, therefore it will have to be the EU for all of Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

Have you ever heard how the south got into the EU? im sure you can work out why its vital for us to either have Turkeys guarantee or them in the EU with us, this will also maintain the GC support for Turkeys entry and not allow them to turn theirbacks the moment they have what they want. You are again trying to lead us into capitulation, people understand exactly where your priorities lay and its has nothing to so with "True Democracy and Human Rights" thats just the label for your receipt of TCs being absorbed by GCs.

[miltiades]

VP , The T/Cs have lived on the island of Cyprus since around 1571 , almost 440 years and have not been absorbed by the G/Cs , what makes you think that they will at some time in the future . It seems to me you do not know your own people !

[Kikapu]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

Have you ever heard how the south got into the EU? im sure you can work out why its vital for us to either have Turkeys guarantee or them in the EU with us, this will also maintain the GC support for Turkeys entry and not allow them to turn theirbacks the moment they have what they want.

I can understand in maintaining "GCs" interest (actually, it will be the unified country's interest, which also includes the TCs from then on) in letting Turkey into the EU, but that's another issue all together and has nothing to do with the safety of the TCs in Cyprus.

Besides, were you not telling us all along that the little RoC's veto powers does not mean anything as far as letting Turkey into the EU club. Why the concern all of a sudden.!

You are again trying to lead us into capitulation, people understand exactly where your priorities lay and its has nothing to so with "True Democracy and Human Rights" thats just the label for your receipt of TCs being absorbed by GCs.

I have asked you for an explanation on the above subject and not a bloody lecture on unrelated matters you damn fool. Now go to bed and sleep it off you damn clown.!

[Viewpoint]

VP , The T/Cs have lived on the island of Cyprus since around 1571 , almost 440 years and have not been absorbed by the G/Cs , what makes you think that they will at some time in the future . It seems to me you do not know your own people !

They were never a minority in a Gc state run by GCs.

[Viewpoint]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

Have you ever heard how the south got into the EU? im sure you can work out why its vital for us to either have Turkeys guarantee or them in the EU with us, this will also maintain the GC support for Turkeys entry and not allow them to turn theirbacks the moment they have what they want.

I can understand in maintaining "GCs" interest (actually, it will be the unified country's interest, which also includes the TCs from then on) in letting Turkey into the EU, but that's another issue all together and has nothing to do with the safety of the TCs in Cyprus.

Besides, were you not telling us all along that the little RoC's veto powers does not mean anything as far as letting Turkey into the EU club. Why the concern all of a sudden.!

You are again trying to lead us into capitulation, people understand exactly where your priorities lay and its has nothing to so with "True Democracy and Human Rights" thats just the label for your receipt of TCs being absorbed by GCs.

I have asked you for an explanation on the above subject and not a bloody lecture on unrelated matters you damn fool. Now go to bed and sleep it off you damn clown.!

I have repeatedly asked you not to insult me personally, either ADMIN step in and take immediate action or I to will start to insult you in a manner you will not like, this is your last warning.

[YFred]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

Have you ever heard how the south got into the EU? im sure you can work out why its vital for us to either have Turkeys guarantee or them in the EU with us, this will also maintain the GC support for Turkeys entry and not allow them to turn theirbacks the moment they have what they want.

I can understand in maintaining "GCs" interest (actually, it will be the unified country's interest, which also includes the TCs from then on) in letting Turkey into the EU, but that's another issue all together and has nothing to do with the safety of the TCs in Cyprus.

Besides, were you not telling us all along that the little RoC's veto powers does not mean anything as far as letting Turkey into the EU club. Why the concern all of a sudden.!

You are again trying to lead us into capitulation, people understand exactly where your priorities lay and its has nothing to so with "True Democracy and Human Rights" thats just the label for your receipt of TCs being absorbed by GCs.

I have asked you for an explanation on the above subject and not a bloody lecture on unrelated matters you damn fool. Now go to bed and sleep it off you damn clown.!

I have repeatedly asked you not to insult me personally, either ADMIN step in and take immediate action or I to will start to insult you in a manner you will not like, this is your last warning.

VP, thats exactly what he wants you to do because an angry mind is not a clear mind. You can play him at his own game in a calm collected and reasonable way. He can't beat it. When the final agreement comes along at the end of the year, it will be very clear who is off their rocker and who is not.
I wouldn't get too upset if I was you. He is not worth it.

[Kikapu]

It is well known , and has been so , that the RoC will never accept a solution that gives Turkey the right of intervention at her whim . No Cypriot will ever accept such an agreement , Turkey is fully aware of the strong opposition to her having guarantor status , talks however continue and it seems to me that Turkeys position on the guarantor status isn't rigid, why else would the talks continue .
We are a European nation and the guarantees ought to be sufficient emanating from the West rather than Turkey whose aspirations to join Europe would suffer greatly by her intransigent position concerning guarantees.
The future of Cyprus is bright , the future of Turkey outside Europe and with her troops on European soil looks rather dim , she knows it only too well .

So you are asking us to accept the EU in place of Turkey?

Our guarantor is the law of the land , it applies to all Cypriots and it is backed by the EU . Are you seriously suggesting that a nation whose overwhelming number of citizens see Turkey as an invader and an occupier should accept this nation as a guarantor ??
Please do me a favour do consider the concerns of the huge majority of Cypriots. It would be a tapestry of justice agreeing to Turkey gaining legal intervention rights in a democratic state member of the EU.
The T/Cs human rights would be protected by the laws of the land and overseen by the EC .

Who would administer these laws? we are not worried about the knife but the surgeon who will use the knife. I can understand your concerns about Turkey but asking us to ditch their guarantee so that you can do whatever you wish without hinderence or deterrant is unbelievable..the trust is just not there so it will be stalemate once again. Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved but otherwise we are left wide open to manipulation by not only the GCs but Greece and the rest of the EU who we have no reason to trust.

Maybe a term of transition is necessary so as to build up trust, once Turkey enters the EU then the guarantees can be dissolved

I don't get your above logic. First you say you do not trust the EU for protection, therefore you want security of Turkey, but once Turkey becomes a EU member, then you will trust the EU.!

Can you please explain this to me.!

Because Turkey will also be in the EU.

So what.! They will not be able to do anything unilaterally, so how will that help the TCs. Sorry, you have given me a very poor answer, so please try again.

Have you ever heard how the south got into the EU? im sure you can work out why its vital for us to either have Turkeys guarantee or them in the EU with us, this will also maintain the GC support for Turkeys entry and not allow them to turn theirbacks the moment they have what they want.

I can understand in maintaining "GCs" interest (actually, it will be the unified country's interest, which also includes the TCs from then on) in letting Turkey into the EU, but that's another issue all together and has nothing to do with the safety of the TCs in Cyprus.

Besides, were you not telling us all along that the little RoC's veto powers does not mean anything as far as letting Turkey into the EU club. Why the concern all of a sudden.!

You are again trying to lead us into capitulation, people understand exactly where your priorities lay and its has nothing to so with "True Democracy and Human Rights" thats just the label for your receipt of TCs being absorbed by GCs.

I have asked you for an explanation on the above subject and not a bloody lecture on unrelated matters you damn fool. Now go to bed and sleep it off you damn clown.!

I have repeatedly asked you not to insult me personally, either ADMIN step in and take immediate action or I to will start to insult you in a manner you will not like, this is your last warning.

You better learn to be respectful and not make unwarranted insinuations on unrelated matters. As I told you on the other thread, don’t expect "love and kisses" from me if you act irresponsibly. You can criticize me all you want, just make sure it is on what we are talking about and not something that is totally unrelated, just because you don't have an answer for me. You can scream all you want to the Admin all you want, but as long as you want to act foolishly, you will get an earful from me.